Well said, Ben. Thank you and everyone else here who has shared with us
their private struggles for the benefit of others. I understand how
uplifting it must have been to know someone did a good thing for you just
for the sake of doing good a thing. You expressed your sentiments and story
very well. Thanks again!
regards,
__________
Chris Crowell
ccrowell@crowellsrealm.com
_____
From: mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben
Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 10:52 PM
To: mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MLM Survivors Club] Re: how do I convince him its a scam?
As an ex higher pin (qualifying platinum or above for 16 years) I
can assure you that we made money from the business however the
money we made and more was poured back in many times over. We
ignored mountains of evidence indicating that things weren't as they
seemed for many years because we totally believed and trusted the
people we were following as they trust the people they are
following. However there are players who really know the truth. The
larger pins - Emeralds and Diamonds who actually get to run their
own functions are the ones who know the most about how things really
work. Others are simply repeating the same lies over and over and
fighting their personal battle behind closed doors because
the "system" only ever teaches that the fault is with the individual
for all things and that the "system" is infallible and that there is
never a valid reason to quit. Towards the end I would come off stage
after speaking and retire to some place absolutely sobbing my eyes
out because i knew things weren't right but I couldn't put my finger
on what it was. I was so indoctrinated that though I knew "negative
websites" existed I refused to go to them. Nothing negative is ever
discussed about the business anywhere in "the business" arena. The
two pillars that enable this incredible cloak and web of deception
to continue are (1) the forced edification of upline and (2) the
absolute unbreakable rule of No Crosslining. These to pillars
bridged with the constant programming of the tapes and cd's are in
my opinion the only reason the scammers are able to scam people and
have them walk away believing that they are actually the ones at
fault. It is really the ultimate con - not only are the victims to
embarrassed to admit they have been conned, most of them aren't even
aware that they have been conned at all.
The result of all this is that the turmoil and guilt we went through
for many months when we started to investigate the business with
open eyes was almost unbearable. To think that we had been deceived
for many years left us bitter and hurt immensely but to think that
we had been instrumental in deceiving others is what hurt the most.
If it had not been for people like PW, Eric Scheibeler and Deb
helping me to understand what had actually happened to us I honestly
don't know where I would be today.
I know that this doesn't actually answer the question that was the
topic of ths thread but these are my hearfelt thoughts after reading
some of the replies. All I can really say about convincing people it
is a scam is to echo others thoughts of encouraging people to "seek
the truth" "ask questions" and "follow their heart". I do know that
we must support those who are seeking to leave the scam regardless
of where they are in any area of their life because the longer they
have been in and the more successful they are oftentimes the further
they have to fall.
The human tragedy of the Amquix/AMO phenonomen is frightening and
ultimately the best thing we can do for our fellow man is to reach
out to help them in a time of need. It humbles me that people on the
other side of the world reached out to help us with no thought of
gain other than the satisfaction of helping someone out of a dark
place where they themselves had been.
I hope this makes sense.
Thanks to all of you.
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@ <mailto:mlmsurvivorsclub%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, "paine_wwweb_r"
<paine_wwweb_r@...> wrote:
>
> > Bob, I can't really recall anybody coming
> > in here and accusing any Survivors of being
> > bad because we were in the business for any
> > length of time be it short or long. Now we
> > have had plenty of pros come in and accuse
> > us of being lazy/stupid/quitters/losers for
> > dumping the biz but I don't think they are
> > part of this discussion.
>
> That's right. This discussion is not about what pro-MLMers think
of
> us, but rather what we survivors think of those who are or were
active
> in their MLMs. The major point is that it is more difficult to
hold
> you accountable for committing a crime unless it can be shown that
you
> were consciously aware that you were committing that crime. And in
> MLM, virtually everyone is unaware of their true role in the scam -
> that is, until they quit and are able to look back on the
experience.
>
> By that measure. I find it increasingly difficult to condemn
anyone -
> INCLUDING most Diamonds - unless it can be shown that they are
aware
> of the harm they are causing. I was in a group led by a
> Triple-Diamond, and I am fully convinced that he was duped by
Dexter
> Yager into believing that the system was helping his group. From
> private conversations I had with them, I have trouble believing
that
> they were in on the scam and were willing participants in a crime.
>
> Whether they should have known based on evidence they should have
had
> is another matter. They were probably led, as we were, to ignore
the
> negative as unsubstantiated and probably had no idea that they were
> doing exactly what they were doing.
>
> That's why I avoided mentioning their names on Dateline, and I told
> Dateline that I would avoid mentioning them unless they could show
me
> evidence of wrongdoing on their part.
>
> So the problem becomes defining who's in on the scam and who is
not?
> Who is the criminal and who is the victim? Who is the joker and
who
> is the target of the joke?
>
>
>
> > Once again I don't see where any
> > posters have suggested PW is stupid
> > or sleazy. I'm sure if someone did
> > PW would not let that go without a
> > helluva fight. What would be left
> > over from the poster would certainly
> > be wiped out by many of us joining
> > him in support. And I certainly agree
> > that PW is neither, just reading one
> > or two of his posts sets that to rest.
>
> Thanks for those kind words. I suspect that if someone tried to
call
> me stupid or sleazy, I wouldn't have to say a word. I'd have
enough
> support from my teammates that it wouldn't be necessary.
>
> Frankly, I wouldn't worry about being called a name by an MLMer.
I've
> been called lazy and naive by seasoned MLM defenders, and I think
my
> experience speaks to those who are currently involved in MLM much
more
> than some sort of battle of words would. We all know what sort of
> people resort to namecalling, and I simply don't acknowledge such
> behavior.
>
>
>
> > I have respect for you, PW, and every
> > Survivor, no matter how much kool aid
> > we may have drank.
>
> While I greatly appreciate this remark, I'd like you to know that,
to
> me, it is much more critical than you may think. "No matter how
much
> kool aid we may have drank..." Think of Eric Scheibeler, who drank
> LOTS of the kool aid and became an Emerald. Think of Bo Short, a
Diamond.
>
> How many other kool aid drinkers are there at those levels of the
> business who are still under its influence? Should we condemn them
> for having taken the same drink that we did, only in greater
> quantities? You know, that kool aid tasted okay while we were
> drinking it.
>
> We have to be very careful about whom we condemn until we know
better
> who was distribuing the kool aid. I don't expect all MLM
survivors to
> understand or appreciate that, but it's important that we begin to
> talk about it. One day, we may have another ex-Diamond join us
here,
> and I'd like to think that once you are an EX-Diamond, you are
likely
> to remain an ex-Diamond. All that is necessary is the
understanding
> and support of people who can empathize with them to make it a
reality.
>
> Again, thank you, Bobz and Robby, for your kindness.
>
>
> PW
>
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