This was not supposed to be sent out. I can't remember if this is
something I sent, or whether it's a response I wrote because I was
ticked off but decided not to send.
Either way, I had some mail server issues and this went out accidently.
Feel free to ignore it.
Hal
On Monday 13 August 2007, Hal Vaughan wrote:
> On Sunday 25 March 2007 23:31, Francie Smart wrote:
> > I think it's really important to stay with what I might call facts,
> > although that's not exactly the word I'm looking for.
>
> Oh, boy, do I smell an MLM truth twisting session coming after that.
> Yep. Without reading another sentence, that tells me someone is
> about to start taking words and using them to mean what they want
> instead of what they mean.
>
> A statement is a fact or an opinion or a theory or hypothesis or
> metaphor or fiction. Even some of those aren't distinct and come
> under other categories.
>
> Facts are facts. That's it. That's the long and short of it. If
> you want to make statements that are facts, make them. If they're
> not facts, then let us know if they're lies, theories, or something
> else. Don't confuse the terms. As E.B. White said in "Elements of
> Style," "Use the right word, not it's cousin." If you don't know the
> right word, discover a thesaurus. I'm being super picky here
> because, in this case, the wording is important.
>
> > Somehow trying
> > to bundle the statement "these claims have not been endorsed ( and
> > by the way its "evaluated") by the FDA" into MLM is just silly.
> > Every supplement you buy, or any foods that claim a health benefit
> > (Grape juice comes to mind), whether MLM or anywhere says the same
> > thing. When we allow the bitterness toward MLM to cloud things
> > other than MLM, the waters get muddied.
>
> That is a fair point, isolated by itself. Yes, there are many
> products that make those claims. Yet, your statement has nothing to
> do with the situation. It is a non sequitur, having nothing to do
> with the point made.
>
> Why?
>
> Simple. Nobody sells grape juice saying it helps cure cancer. There
> are discussions about what root or herb takes car of various ills and
> ailments, but even in any health food store you don't hear the
> extraordinary claims about something curing cancer.
>
> > As for Noni Juice, whether MLM or not, and I prefer the NOT, it
> > has very powerful nutrient properties.
>
> And this has been proven in double blind studies and actual
> scientific experiments and studies that have been peer reviewed and
> firmly established, right? Or is the evidence anecdotal and compiled
> by people working for companies selling it and who benefit if their
> claims are taken seriously?
>
> > It certainly is not THE end all
> > and be all to fighting something like cancer, I would agree.
>
> My Father (and best friend) just died from leukemia, which is a form
> of cancer. If you want to continue down this road and start going
> down this road and make any kind of claims about how it fights
> cancer, go ahead, but I'm warning you, I will forget I'm a pacifist
> and a member of a peace church and I will verbally tear you to
> pieces. Why? Because the only way such a statement could be made is
> out of extreme ignorance.
>
> We were lucky. When Dad was diagnosed, about 3 years ago, one doctor
> basically said, "You need to call the hospice program and talk with
> them." For those that don't know, at least locally, hospice is
> specifically for the last six months of one's life. The other doctor
> that he saw started researching. He knows what to look for. He kept
> my Father alive and gave him three more years, most of that quality
> time. I watched what was going on and talked with the doctor and so
> did other family members. There's no conspiracy to keep drugs off
> the market. There's no magic silver bullet that will knock out
> cancer. I wish to high heaven there were, since if there were, my
> Father would still be alive, but there isn't.
>
> Such myths stay alive because we want to believe that there is some
> juice or powder or potion from one of the lost jungles of the world
> that will cure all cancer. Hell, it's not just cancer. We want a
> panacea, so it's easy to believe it when someone says there is a
> cure. The truth is there isn't. If Noni juice or some other witch's
> brew (my apologies to Wiccans, but I think the term comes across with
> my intent) could cure cancer, Dad's doctor would have used it in a
> heart beat. If it would have even retarded the cancer and given him
> another week to live, he would have done the same.
>
> The point is that doctors have years and years of training that most
> of us never have. They aren't trying to hide cures. They are trying
> to find them and make people well. If there were a magic bullet,
> they'd be using it. Any pharma company that could claim such a magic
> bullet would see surges in profit and stock prices that have never
> been seen in history before. They could blow away all the other
> companies and their drug cocktails. If a researcher at a company had
> found ways to cure cancer and it was being suppressed, they would
> have every motivation to leak the information. It would make their
> reputation and they would go down in history for saving millions of
> lives.
>
> Noni Juice even helping in curing cancer? Don't even think of going
> there.
>
> Unless you're stupid.
>
> > The
> > most highly visible form of Noni Juice is from MLM companies, but
> > it can be purchased at more reasonable prices at many health food
> > stores too. Its a juice for cry'n out loud... a food. Would you
> > say the same about grape juice?
>
> Okay, it's late, I want to go to bed, so I'm going to simplify this
> and say it's a red herring. You're implying that how people treat
> grape juice actually has an effect on the Noni juice situation. It
> doesn't.
>
> > It's being touted as having anti-oxidant,
> > free radical scavenging abilities. That "statement", "not been
> > evaluated by the FDA" is also on bottles of grape juice that make
> > statements about its anti-oxident qualities.
>
> And, again, it doesn't matter.
>
> Just what are you trying to say? That Noni Juice is useful after
> all?
>
> Hal
>
> > Francie
> >
> > Vicki <v_eller@yahoo.
> > Glad to hear they got out of Quixtar
> >
> > As for the Noni Juice. It's over-priced, tastes disgusting and does
> > NOT solve any of your ills. So don't let your friend believe it. I
> > am sure there is a disclaimer somewhere that says something
> > like "these claims have not been endorsed by the FDA".
> >
> > ALL MLM's are the same. And I can also buy Fuller Brush in my local
> > VF Outlet store... but it is STILL over-priced.
> >
> > --- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
> >
> > <frances_lyman@
> > > I am a former member of this group who has returned!!!! I
> >
> > remember some of you but I am sure you don't remember me, as there
> > are so many people out there who have been affected by MLM's. My
> > son and daughter in law were introduced to Quixtar. The amount they
> > lost, is nothing compared to most in this group, but that is
> > because they didn't have much to loose!!! It was so very sad to
> > watch them work so hard and go through all they did, and not even
> > know what was happening. You all in this group, helped me to
> > understand that there was nothing I could really do, except stick
> > by them and love them regardless. I was trying really hard to do
> > that, but it got to a point where there was absolutely no food in
> > the house, and they had three small children. My daughter in law
> > had to go see if she could get help from the state and they
> > qualified, but no money for a couple of days. She asked the lady
> > that helped her with the paperwork, what she was supposed to do,
> > for food, until
> >
> > > then. The lady sent her to the food bank, where they loaded up
> >
> > her car. That is what they had to eat for a couple of weeks!!! All
> > during this time, the Quixtar people were telling them that they
> > shouldn't quit. They needed to keep going. They ended up quitting,
> > because they had no more to give. They have not heard from
> > their "friends" since.
> >
> > > They seem to be doing alright now. There is no desire to return
> >
> > to "the business" but they don't seem to want to totally give up
> > their concept of the type of person Lennon Ledbetter is. They still
> > think he is a pretty cool guy, but all of the time, they seem to
> > give up a little more. I think a lot of the reason that they hang
> > on to a little of the whole thing, is because they are still
> > embarassed.
> >
> > > I will admit that I left the group, as there was so much
> >
> > sadness, and devastation, that it was hard to deal with. The
> > devastation that I saw happening to my children, was pale in
> > comparison to so many other, and it was depressing.
> >
> > > The reason for my return to the group, was that my brother in
> >
> > law who has just been diagnosed with colon cancer and is getting
> > chemo treatments, heard about "Noni Juice" from one of his co-
> > workers. We happen to live in the town where the corporate
> > headquarters is. I called the company to see if they carried what
> > he was looking for. The company is called Tahitian Noni. I also
> > looked up some info online, and some of the things I read just set
> > off alarms. It talked about uplines and stuff like that. Since, I
> > have found out that Tahitian Noni, and Noni Juice is an MLM. Do you
> > all know anything about it????
> >
> > > I guess after all of this time, I had forgotten just how sneaky
> >
> > and manipulating these MLM's are. I was totally amazed that this
> > company was an MLM. I just thought it was some kinc of power drink
> > or something. It was scary how something like that could be in this
> > town and no one really knows. Like I said, since then, I have found
> > out that some people do know, but it is a very well kept secret.
> >
> > > In addition to Tahitian Noni, I wanted to ask you all what you
> >
> > think about Fuller Brush and Watkins. My brother in law has been
> > with Fuller Brush for years, and Watkins a couple of times in the
> > past. I had purchase a couple of things from him, until I found out
> > they were affiliated with Quixtar. Do you know the degree of
> > involvment??
> > if there is one, or are they bad ones????
> >
> > > It is hard to trust anymore.
> > >
> > > Frances L.
> > >
> > >
> > > Frances
> > >
> > > "Goals are stars to steer by, not sticks to beat yourself up
> >
> > with".
> >
> > > ~Barbara B. Smith
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------
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> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > market america
> > Built on Products - Powered by People
> > Make Your Shopping Destination www.marketamerica.
> > Francie Smart - Customer Manager at 1-888-275-8853
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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