On Thursday 13 September 2007, NeShell Eva Patten wrote:
> Shana, Vicki & Hal, thanks a lot for everything you've said.
>
> Shana, thank you for sharing your story and for your empathy and
> understanding.
>
> Hal, thanks for your long post back and great advice.
Long posts are no problem. Short posts? They take 10x as long to edit!
> Vicki, thank you for your words too. They're a good swift kick and
> the butt and believe me, I know that I'm partly responsible for
> letting things get this far.
>
> It's amazing how things like this get worse while you're dealing with
> every day life. I just didn't realize how deep we'd sunk into this.
> Maybe I didn't want to believe it. I think it's also partly because I
> wanted to believe in him. I wanted him to succeed and I want him to
> be happy. But I also want him to love me and our family more than he
> loves Primerica.
Yes. We go day to day and before we know it, we look back and wonder
why we've put up with something so long.
It's good you wanted to believe in him, but whenever anyone says they
can make you rich, be skeptical.
> He wants riches and the recognition of "going across the stage" and
> getting the ring or the watch with the diamonds. I will gladly
> exchange that for a lifetime of just being financially responsible. I
> just don't know how to get him to trade his blinged out dreams with
> my more mundane reality.
They are creating an ego in him and stroking it. If it helps, my
ex-girlfriend was in Quackstar and was looking forward to going across
the stage and being financially independent. Last I heard she and her
partner were selling off their stuff to pay for functions. That was
about the same time I bought my Mercedes convertible. I'm not saying
that as a bragging point, but it's a contrast worth noting. One (her)
was a MLM drone and was going to get rich, the other (me) had a small
business and worked hard and carefully. One's doing quite well, the
other -- well, let's not speak ill of others.
> Hal's words have stuck with me. I wonder if Arnold will blame me for
> what he will believe "might have been?" I wonder if there's a
> counselor who specializes in this sort of thing as well as
> relationships.
I've said this so often that others are quoting it now, which I think is
good because it's something we all need to think about. If a you tell
a person something, they can doubt it and you could be lying. If they
discover it or figure it out on their own, then they know it's true.
He has been fed a careful diet of lies, promises, and promises that have
been carefully designed to keep people on the line and continually
paying money into the system to make those at the top rich. He is told
that he owns his own business and that he's important. Granted, he's
not making any decisions and doing nothing but working his tail off for
them, doing whatever they tell him to, but he's told he is important
and owns his own business. They are programming him to have an
inflated attitude, but, at the same time, they are also doing
everything an abusive spouse does.
While they make him think he's important, they tell him this is the only
way to success. It's a contradictory approach. On the one hand they
want to build him up so he feels he should be on stage and being
worshipped by people, on the other, they make it clear that "without us
you're nobody." That way he feels he should have a nice office with
nice furniture and so on, but he also feels there's no way he can
succeed in anything else. That means whatever job he can qualify for
doesn't offer him the prestige he thinks he deserves, but he isn't
qualified for any job that does have that level of prestige. That
gives them control over him and keeps him from finding another path to
doing well.
They want him to believe that he can make it through them and nowhere
else. He believes it now so if he has to stop, he'll believe he's
losing his chance. That's why questions are such a big help. I didn't
go into it as much as I should have, but focus on asking questions that
make him think about thins so he discovers the lies and deception.
I'm not saying to life the deadline. If you do, then he'll think he can
keep manipulating you and pushing deadlines back. The deadline, now
that it's set, is an opportunity. Use it to redefine things. Point
out that you know he wants to improve things and give his family good
things, but also point out that he is not providing and that you need
money for rent *now* so you can move out of your Mom's house. You get
the idea.
I honestly don't think he'll respond. He's been brainwashed and I think
it's more likely you'll have to leave him (or you and your Mom ask him
to move out) than that he'll stop working the system. I'm not trying
to be mean, but if you here that now, you have more time to adjust to
it and it'll be easier to take a stand. The one thing I do believe is
that it's a the point where you can keep giving in to him or stand up,
firmly say, "Enough is enough," or this just won't end.
Another thought came to me about your living arrangements. If his
choice is to drop the program and stay or keep in the program, insist
that if his choice is the program, he has to move out. That way he'll
have to pay his own rent and be responsible for his own bills. That
may force him to focus on work, income, and on realizing how much money
he's throwing away.
> I wonder if he'll really choose this business over us? I am
> definitely prepared to split if he does, but wow, I never thought it
> would come to this.
I've dealt with a lot of women in relationships with men that don't take
responsibility for what they're doing. I can tell you that you have to
remember a little about poker. If you set a deadline and don't hold to
it, then the next time you do that, he won't listen. If you keep a
straight poker face and bid high, implying you have a straight flush,
then it turns out you have a pair of treys, the next time you have a
great hand, people will wonder if you're bluffing. There are
compromises, such as asking him to move out (and let him know ahead of
time so he can start saving up for a security deposit), but keeping in
touch or dating.
> Again, only time will tell. 3 1/2 months to go.
>
> Thank you all again, so much. It means more than a few typed words
> can say.
Good luck. We know what MLMs can do to relationships. That's why we're
here for you. If you need to vent at times and don't want advice, just
say so and we're here to listen as well!
Hal
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