On Monday 28 January 2008, steve.indepass wrote:
> Hi folks
>
> I keep seeing people refer to themselves as "mlm junkies".
>
> I made some comments a while back about mlm and addiction - and got
> roasted for suggesting that mlm 'use' (like drug use) was a coping
> strategy of people with low or damaged self-esteem. My comments were
> seen as unhelpful generalisations, lacking in empathy and somewhat
> insulting to the innocent 'victims' of mlm - all of whom, supposedly
> had healthy self-esteem that was then destroyed by the evil of mlm.
Here's a point: You're complaining that people said you were
generalizing, then you generalize and say all MLM victims have a
healthy self-esteem.
Yes you will keep getting roasted if you keep generalizing, especially
about many of the people who are in this group. Does it occur to you
that you're essentially coming into a group and saying, "You're messed
up, or you were. Here's why and I know all about you and what's in
your mind and none of you do" ?
Yes, there are junkies and MLM addicts, but that does not make all
victims fall in that category. One thing I learned while working in
treatment is that you can't make such generalizations. I worked with a
lot of teens who had been on drugs. I can't say, "All the druggies I
worked with had low self esteem so they took drugs." I can't
say, "They all did it out of peer pressure." I can't say, "They all
did it because they were bored and there was nothing else for a teen on
a backwater military base to do."
People are complex and do things for many reasons. Just as teens do
drugs for different reasons, people do MLMs for different reasons.
From what I've seen, only a few do it because of low self esteem.
> I am totally anti-mlm. In the UK, I actively do what I can to expose
> the side of the argument that pro-mlmers want to keep hidden from
> their prospects.
>
> I also have experience of addiction - having, like countless
> millions, been a 'junkie' using cigarettes, cannabis and alcohol
> throughout the larger part of my life until I decided to quit it all
> some 3 years ago. For me, those substances were a 'self-medication'
> for a pain; a discomfort - an agonising lack of self-worth and
> self-esteem.
And remember, that is what is true for you, not for others. You've
missed the point from the start: YOU ARE GENERALIZING and people do
things for many different reasons. You know SOME of the reasons you
were addicted, but from what you say, that does not mean you know ALL
the reasons you were addicted.
> In addiction, the drug isn't to blame for the users' lack of
> self-esteem. Sure, it helps to make it worse. But the drug is the
> 'medication' to deal with the inner emptiness, the pain the addict
> already feels.
That's one simple way of explaining it for some people, but not for
everyone.
> I've spent a few years watching and researching all kinds of mlms,
> reading the testimony of people who have been in mlms (such as this
> site) and gaining direct experience of mlm people. Countless people
> have described themselves as being 'mlm junkies' and if there's one
> common pattern I've seen, it's that most serial mlm-ers behave like
> addicts or 'gamblers' (addicts by another name).
Now I know I've not seen the whole cross-section of these groups, but
you're saying countless people describe themselves that way, but you're
ignoring that many people do not. You're talking about ONE GROUP of
people in MLMs, not ALL GROUPS and not ALL PEOPLE.
> Like addicts, 'mlm junkies' search for a 'fix' in mlm, don't find it,
> feel more ashamed and in pain, and keep searching for another mlm to
> fix that pain. Despite all the evidence to the contrary, the 'mlm
> junkie' retains a core belief that there IS one mlm out there that
> will fix him / her.
>
> In previous posts, I suggested that rather than being responsible for
> creating poor self-esteem in serial mlmers, just maybe mlm was set up
> to exploit what was already there. That caused a bit of a reaction.
> Maybe that's hard to stomach because it's much easier to someone to
> be a victim of mlm in the same way that it would be much easier to
> blame my using chemicals on the dealers who sold them to me; or the
> bar or the supermarket.
Steve, I'm not in an MLM, have never been, at least officially (I was
associated with a few guys in Amway back in college for a bout a week,
then decided I just wasn't excited about any of it). I have nothing to
lose if you're right and guess what -- YOU'RE WRONG.
You are saying that because it caused a reaction, it means it hit close
to the bone.
NO!
It causes a reaction because such a blanket statement, generalizing over
everyone because of what one group says, and that just does not work.
Yes, you've been through a rough experience and learned a lot. You're
also doing what I've seen many of the kids I worked with in treatment
do and what I've seen adults do when they go through something like
this and learn a lot. You've gained a tremendous insight into humanity
and human nature, but that does not mean that you know it all. You do
not know everything about addiction or poor self esteem.
You only know well what led to YOUR addiction.
You are also comparing MLMs to substances and the dynamic is quite
different. Pot doesn't come up to someone and say, "I can help you
help others." MLMs do that. MLMs create illusions and hide behind a
smokescreen that pot and alcohol and other drugs do not.
Here's a bit of homework for you: Find the Roseanne episode titled "My
Name is Bev." In it Beverly, Roseanne's Mother, is arrested and has to
go to an AA meeting. After the meeting, she tells Roseanne that now
she realizes she is an alcoholic and that's her trouble. Then Bev goes
around and tells everyone how they use alcohol as a crutch. She tells
them they can't have a good time without drinking and that they're all
alcoholics. Dan can't have his friends over to see the Superbowl and
have a keg because Bev says he needs to have fun without the booze.
She takes her problem and her situation and projects it onto everyone
else. Because she uses alcohol as a crutch (or thinks she does), then
in her eyes, everyone who drinks at all must do the same thing.
Did you learn about projection as you were dealing with these
addictions? It's when people project their own issues or problems or
attitudes on others instead of accepting that it's in them only.
YOU ARE PROJECTING. You are saying, "I learned this and it's true, so
this is what the deal is with you." That doesn't work. You've learned
part of the story, but now are insisting what's true for you is true
for all. That is not the case and the more you insist the more you are
saying, "I know this one thing, and it explains it all" and making it
clear that your knowledge has limits and that you either can't or don't
want to look beyond those limits.
> Why am I posting again about this? Because like any addiction,
> unless people take responsibility for what drives them to use 'stuff'
> as a way to avoid facing their inner pain, the industry (drugs,
> gambling or mlm) will continue to thrive. This morning, I picked up
> two more posts here saying 'I'm a mlm junkie' - and the response from
> the forum, once again, was 'It has nothing to do with you - you are
> the victim of evil people'.
Yes, one person said they were a junkie.
Okay people, how many in this group have joined ONE MLM (or maybe two)
and haven't gone from one to the other and on and on?
Steve, you get 99 posts that disprove what you say and one that supports
it, so you grab on to the ONE that supports you and ignore the rest.
Try looking beyond yourself and looking at patterns that aren't yours.
ðc99Ûúûò'ç(Ñ r«Y±ëJ»6uŠUZ~òIˆ¶=™#ü?î®dÇqœI¿Jã?6`ÃÚå<Ï\ç2O@Q"̲¶Ò'NçÓƒZlIA§$Ó™UÓ@¡´ ¢¸cùâ ñOüÿåýÈlùCÕ=h'`ñþ*L¿ø…i,°ú= Wß:&ÓÕŽšÉ·ÍLAeõ ìèÉôƒ¹ŠîúGc ~Âò|Ó„÷äú¦{ âßšw?Áê2i²…AMRR—ì㣻EÅÍýæ‹Ã 3Èa9—åøvxZ?ÌÄÉnˆÞhõAض:ä@ƒø'Ù*o²<#T!±WÉ!ÎaJÖ¿® üþõÈ´êzëë‰ Žàpü¶¤rÍ°ŒÈŸÖQ¬« D™„„ÓÎîEyŽã8z^б]ÿ‰âŽÛD1gÊr¿IŽCZÌíõ÷îßi)ãÍôö?_ûäéæÓæ}f…`%à>m^ËöŠÕyÂR §Í"±Ô^…¶91iÍÅi¾ôØÁ{ ÍxyµXH$«-ž¡ XÙ}(Sè£A¶nï×—¼2ÿ±4 0\ÑŒ3NÄDä÷Ô3±ZoÙNœL±Ëº€õ@ÝiÌ ¬È,æжTŒ\,9W´ô¦ø©ùÕd3' Æî¾Àtú²æG<Ø"ìC¶O¬ñ¥ô<%¦}è¼Ã¯ñ³ÄpâQ!-.×HOcÀ©{μƒW&J=ŠU< º" ‰(R±"`á@RÒ¼ÄBy5IΦ?$l'z)ÚûÂl"B')ÇÒÏš`Á›î"¼o=EòÈ|²M0žƒq0Ž7³çƒ @/ eizEŠ kψÝ")É:\%5ø>e8ı2jð —BMœx„§7¡"á !T,‡,>CxÍ…q€Êb<*yŒF' ÓÅC©;qàAÖ_û€¿ë³HØibÎÑyÅiŠá¢|MIYÉõB¶É⦂°˜¿¨ š 0ª"¿šUagainst a brick wall, just like you did
with addiction. You have a chance to learn something here. Take it.
Or keep saying the same thing, getting hammered, and insisting you know
more than everyone else. It just shows everyone the limits on what you
do know.
Hal
