On Wednesday 03 October 2007, Jennifer Loudermilk wrote:
> My responses are in blue. I am a "member" of LTD.
You can't count on comments showing in different colors. Many email
programs don't display HTML for security reasons. Believe it or not,
the Internet "standard" way to do it (defined in RFC or something
somewhere) is to allow an email program to quote using ">" at the start
of a line. I don't know if Yahoo does that or not. If that doesn't
work, using other separators tends to help a lot. I'm not trying to be
picky and know I can come across as arrogant, but I'm basically trying
to offer suggestions that might help. I found your use of "<<<>>>" a
big help to separate your comments from previous ones. Thanks for
making that effort!
> I'm glad for the warm response. :-) I'm sure you can imagine how
> earth-shattering this whole thing has been for me.
>
> I was hesitant to name the scam because I wasn't entirely sure it was
> allowed, but here it goes: It's Amway/Quixtar/
> which is short for "Leadership Team Development"
>
> My friend keeps trying to convince me that LTD is not just a part of
> Quixtar, but so far I haven't found it to be involved with anything
> other than it.
> <<<<<LTD is affiliated with Quixtar. There isn't a
> function/meeting/
> there more to it...yes. Larry Winters is the main "leader" and the
> rest are his "diamonds" or other pin levels. They all make their
> money through the motivational "tools" they trick you into buying and
> some from Quixtar itself. Trust me it's like $42.00 more or less a
> month for the cd's I get, now multiply that by the supposed 20,000+
> people affiliated with LTD and tell me they aren't raking in the
> bucks. The cd's themselves only cost pennies and there isn't that
> much work to the duplication of the cd's they are netting at least
> 650,000 a month in "CEP" alone btw CEP stands for Continuing
> Education Program to them>>>>>
I can support that Larry "Fat Greedy Man" Winters has said they're
affiliated with Quackstar. My ex-gf used the name a number of times,
quite proudly. Their view was that Quackstar did the Internet stuff
and Amway was still "doing good work" in other places.
At the time, a few years ago, on CD was about $7.50. I figure those CDs
must cost them about $.50 each to make, so if they're not making 1,500%
profit margin, then they're inept. Pick your evil. Either the upline
is inept or greedy and dishonest.
I've run the numbers on their conventions a hundred times. If asked,
I'll run them again to show just how huge their "not a profit" is.
> I did force a conversation with her last night. It went rather like
> an intervention. She still doesn't believe me, but I managed to plan
> doubts in her mind about the whole thing.
>
> She started to tell me that I couldn't possibly understand, and I
> said, "Why, because I'm not in the Business? Did you get upline
> counseled to say that to me, or did your mentor tell you to say it?"
> <<<<<Upline does try to influence what you say when you talk to
> people. They encourage you to surround yourself with positive and
> get the negative out of your life. Well who wouldn't benefit from a
> life with out negativity? But their idea is basically anyone not in
> "the business" is a negative influence. Who cares if it's family or
> friends when you join you have new family and friends in LTD>>>>>>
A point here that might give you wiggle room is to get her to define
positive views and "negativity.
known me for x years. Am I negative? Do I want to steal your
success?" (The wording on that last sentence is important because it's
how they say it.) Get her answers, have a good discussion, then hammer
it home with, "Is this what you believe? Do you, 100%, believe I'm not
trying to hurt you, steal your success, or disagree? Do you believe
that if I have questions it's because I truly wonder what their
motivation is?" Get her to the point where she's completely sure of
what you say. Then when she goes through the brainwashing, bring it up
again and ask, "Which one of us do you write checks to and which one
gains some kind of income from you? And which do you believe? If you
believed me, what did they say to make you decide that what you truly
believed was wrong?"
These are extreme steps because any time you go "head to head" you're
likely to lose, but consider them suggestions or starting points. You
know your friend, we don't. You have to go by what you feel is
working. I'm only offering suggestions and ways to think about it.
> Well, that sure gave her pause. How did I know about that? I told her
> that I can do the whole lingo thing, I know what it is, and I
> explained in further detail what will be expected of her, and that as
> far as I could see, this "LTD" thing is NOT a member of the BBB as
> they claim. Or maybe it's Quixtar claiming it; I don't know, I
> haven't been to a meeting, nor will I go to one.
> <<<Quixtar is a member of the BBB not LTD>>>>
So is the dating company I tried back in 1992 that I had to sue to get
my money back because I'm allergic to cigarette smoke and they always
set me up with smokers. The BBB was as much help in dealing with them
as a brick is to a drowning man. It was easy for the company to hide
behind lies and, since the BBB income is from membership fees, they
don't seem to police their members as much as I think they should. (I
know others here disagree with me on that.)
...
> She was even trying to get me to buy things; she was telling me about
> how great the detergent is and how all her things look new. I was
> like, "Dude you are a walking commercial." I finally appeased her by
> saying I would consider going to a meeting with her, and that I'd be
> her customer, but I steered the conversation away into more pleasant
> things. She kept trying to bring up "the Business", but I always shot
> back with some of my knowledge from the Net and she'd get really
> quiet. <<<<Let's put it this way. Once you are in "the business"
> that's all you will discuss with everyone. Why?? because you have
> been brainwashed to believe that this is God's desire in your
> life.......>
I noticed that with my ex-gf. I wanted to talk about "Pirates of
Penzance" after we saw it, or about movies, or Shakespeare, or about
what we saw in Colonial Williamsburg, or why the sea is boiling hot or
whether fish have wings, but all she could talk about was Quackstar
crap.
Hal
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