Monday, March 31, 2008

[MLM Survivors Club] Re: Quixtar/Worldwide Group

--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com, "leslie_smith_79"
<leslie_smith_79@...> wrote:
Leslie,

Thanks so much for your response. Since that post, Matt has moved out
and is living on his own. He is working in retail, for a company that
has filed bankruptcy and is trying to find another job. Without a
college education, he is finding it difficult. He is still involved
up to his eyebrows in Quixtar, oh I mean Amway, and will not listen to
anything that I have to say. I just have to "Let go, Let God".

Jenna

>
> I'm so sorry. I am 28 now and had an experience similar to your son.
> I didn't drop out of college; however I only stayed in because of
> family and peer pressure to "have a college degree." I felt college
> was a complete waste of time. I felt disconnected from my fellow
> students. I was going somewhere with my life and everyone else was
> going to be stuck with a dead-end job. I pitied them and avoided the
> parties and read my Quixtar-recommended books instead. At the business
> meetings your son is told that his professors are well-intentioned
> buffoons, that nothing he studies is applicable to the real world and
> that college is a huge waste of time. He will asked if his professors
> all drive sports cars and live in mansions. When he replies that not
> all of his professors do these things, your son's upline will ask him
> why he is wasting his time learning from such unsuccessful people.
>
> I would encourage you to have your son do his own independent research
> on Quixtar. If he is going to business meetings ("functions") then he
> will be somewhat indoctrinated into the system and so it will be best
> for him to take baby steps. If you can get him to skip a couple
> of "functions" and then suggest that he do research it will help. I
> believe that if I had not started skipping any functions I may have
> never seen the light.
>
> The best advice I can give is for you to show him that you love and
> support him no matter what his decisions are. When he does come to
> realize the lies he has been told and the untold negative effect the
> business has had on his life, he is likely to feel betrayed,
> incompetent and wiill feel as if he cannot make even simple decisions
> on his own. I have been out of Quixtar for two years and am just now
> starting to feel as if I once again have full control of my own life.
>
> Good luck! Hang in there. You are not the first people in this
> position and there is hope.
>
> --- In mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com, "jennasknnr" <jennasknnr@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I have a 20 year old son involved in this scam. He is easily led and
> > has spent the last two years throwing money down the drain and
> > destroying all of his family and personal relationships over this
> > "business". He wasted two years of college and now has decided not
> to
> > go back because "he doesn't need to go to college to be successful".
> > This decision is supported by his "upline" and the rest of the idiots
> > that are making money off a kid. I am at my wits end. He is totally
> > brainwashed, we (his father, brother and I) can't get through to him.
> > I am heartbroken to see this great kid go down the drain mentally,
> > physically and financially. Any suggestions?????
> >
>

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[MLM Survivors Club] Re: Quixtar/Worldwide Group

I'm so sorry. I am 28 now and had an experience similar to your son.
I didn't drop out of college; however I only stayed in because of
family and peer pressure to "have a college degree." I felt college
was a complete waste of time. I felt disconnected from my fellow
students. I was going somewhere with my life and everyone else was
going to be stuck with a dead-end job. I pitied them and avoided the
parties and read my Quixtar-recommended books instead. At the business
meetings your son is told that his professors are well-intentioned
buffoons, that nothing he studies is applicable to the real world and
that college is a huge waste of time. He will asked if his professors
all drive sports cars and live in mansions. When he replies that not
all of his professors do these things, your son's upline will ask him
why he is wasting his time learning from such unsuccessful people.

I would encourage you to have your son do his own independent research
on Quixtar. If he is going to business meetings ("functions") then he
will be somewhat indoctrinated into the system and so it will be best
for him to take baby steps. If you can get him to skip a couple
of "functions" and then suggest that he do research it will help. I
believe that if I had not started skipping any functions I may have
never seen the light.

The best advice I can give is for you to show him that you love and
support him no matter what his decisions are. When he does come to
realize the lies he has been told and the untold negative effect the
business has had on his life, he is likely to feel betrayed,
incompetent and wiill feel as if he cannot make even simple decisions
on his own. I have been out of Quixtar for two years and am just now
starting to feel as if I once again have full control of my own life.

Good luck! Hang in there. You are not the first people in this
position and there is hope.

--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com, "jennasknnr" <jennasknnr@...>
wrote:
>
> I have a 20 year old son involved in this scam. He is easily led and
> has spent the last two years throwing money down the drain and
> destroying all of his family and personal relationships over this
> "business". He wasted two years of college and now has decided not
to
> go back because "he doesn't need to go to college to be successful".
> This decision is supported by his "upline" and the rest of the idiots
> that are making money off a kid. I am at my wits end. He is totally
> brainwashed, we (his father, brother and I) can't get through to him.
> I am heartbroken to see this great kid go down the drain mentally,
> physically and financially. Any suggestions?????
>

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[MLM Survivors Club] Re: MLM Survivors Club

I'm familiar with Quixtar and have been around the business and its
functions for 16 years (my parents became involved when I was 12).
I've been to Dexter Yager's house numerous times, the Quixtar
headquarters in Ada, functions that are normally off-limits to lower
level pins, etc. I FINALLY did some soul searching and legal research
after many years and left the company about two years ago. If you
have any specific questions for me just let me know. I don't claim to
be an expert but I'm a great listner and would be happy to help
however I can.

--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com, "tracycole88"
<tracycole88@...> wrote:
>
> Is there anyone out there that has been involved in Quixtar and
gotten
> out for all the right reasons? I would be very interested in
hearing
> your story and possibly having my friend that's involved hear it as
> well so that he may see it in a different light and get out ASAP.
> Thanks for any help!
>

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[MLM Survivors Club] Hi everyone

I used to post in here under the name Lesley7900, but I am locked out
of that account somehow and so I re-joined under this email address.
Anyway I'm an Amway/Quixtar survivor from the Yager line of
sponsorship. My parents joined when I was 11 years old and for the
next 14 years I was basically brainwashed. I have really enjoyed
getting to everyone and I look forward to resuming our chatting and
friendships.

Thanks,
Leslie

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[MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

In answer to your question -

1. Corruption is not the issue as much as the odds being stacked
against you. Its more an issue with the MLM model itself.

2. If you google around, you will find some anti-mlm sites that have
developed a 5 red flag test you can apply to your particular MLM. The
rest depends on you - who you choose to believe.

--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com, "eligabeth2" <eligabeth2@...>
wrote:
>
> hey,i am new to the survivors group and to the MLM industry and my
> question is , Is the MLM industry as a whole, corrupt or is it just a
> few companies that are? i just recently enrolled in to a company and so
> far i have not experienced any of the things that alot of the people
> have experienced in this group,i'd like to think i am not gullible but
> i guess desperate times cause for desperate measures. If i could get
> some advice on how to brace myself for things to come it would be
> greatly appreciated.
> How i became involved in this industry was through a book someone had
> given me 'The business school' by robert kiyosaki,i had read another
> book of his earlier in my life 'Rich dad Poor dad' and this person who
> gave me the book (obviously a network marketer) advised me to read it.I
> only read this book because it ws written by Robert Kiyosaki, but it
> certainly got my attention.
> I dont want to be a statistic in this industry so if there are any tips
> to prevent me from any future headaches ,id rather find out now and
> stick to my Job.
>

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Sunday, March 30, 2008

Re: [MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

On Sunday 30 March 2008, rocketsrants wrote:
> I was thinking of using your response, Hal...
>
> If you're savy with that?
>
> My website is www.rocketsrants.blogspot.com
>
> It was primarily to talk about my thoughts on Amway, but lately, I've
> focussed my critical eye on TEAM.
>
> I wouldn't want to do it without your permission though.

My standard policy is that you can use my work as long as 1) I'm given
due credit, including contact info (I prefer hal@halblog.com), 2) that
what I write, or part of what I write, is not taken out of context, and
3) That it is in NO WAY used to support an MLM.

So if I read you correctly, that you are using it as an anti-MLM
post/blog, that's fine with me. I'm just greedy enough to want credit
for it.

I have a lot of other posts where I've taken apart or commented on
various things in MLM and you're welcome to use them if you feel like
dredging through the archives.

> I agree that someone's shoes are NOT a good benchmark as to someone's
> level of success. I know some folk who don't have a pot to piss in
> or a window to throw it out of wearing designer custom shoes.
>
> I also know one millionaire in particular who wears consistently what
> some would refer to as $hit kickers.

After thinking about it, I realize I also forgot the context. If
they're trying to put on a good show and have worn shoes or signs of
wear on their suit or good clothes, then yes, that's a sure give-away.
I'm so rarely in such situations (and like to avoid them) that I tend
to forget about such settings. Heck, I don't think I even wore a tie
to my Father's funeral. (He knew how much I hated them!)

Hal

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[MLM Survivors Club] Spammer on the list: norhaan@gmail.com

I've just received an email with only one link and a line or two to get
me to go to his myspace.com page.

It was sent by norhaan@gmail.com.

He's no longer a member of the group, so maybe a few people won't get
his email asking you to go to his Myspace page where he advertises
Xango. (It's a LONG one, several screenfulls!0

Norhan (as he spells his name), if you can still read this somehow,
please show up at my front door step so I can forget my religion
requires me to shun violence. I'll be glad to give you a quite
emotional greeting you won't soon forget.

I usually try to be polite in this forum, but I'll be truthful.

You're scum to send recruiting emails to people in this group who have
been burned by groups like yours. I at least don't have to wish you
unwell, since if you're doing Xango, you're going to go through a hell
much worse than any I could wish on you. If you don't know what I
mean, you will one day after you've quit and you remember what I said.

Oh, and just in case, you want to email me for any reason, *PLONK*!

That's Internet-ese for saying you're in my killfile now. That means
any emails you send to me go in the trash before I even see it.

Hal

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[MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

I was thinking of using your response, Hal...

If you're savy with that?

My website is www.rocketsrants.blogspot.com

It was primarily to talk about my thoughts on Amway, but lately, I've
focussed my critical eye on TEAM.

I wouldn't want to do it without your permission though.

I agree that someone's shoes are NOT a good benchmark as to someone's
level of success. I know some folk who don't have a pot to piss in or
a window to throw it out of wearing designer custom shoes.

I also know one millionaire in particular who wears consistently what
some would refer to as $hit kickers.

Rocket

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Re: [MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

On Sunday 30 March 2008, mhargrav1 wrote:
> I thought I was saavy. I picked apart PPL. Then my best friend
> approached me about another MLM. I'll give you a hint:
> telecommunications, Trump, Kiyosaki.
>
> I've recently spent some time pouring over chat rooms, blogs and both
> praises and complaints about this company. There were overwhelmingly
> more complaints than praises. I asked my friend pointedly how much
> his upline makes in a month if no one in his downline recruits and
> his answer to me was that I was over analyzing the company and it's
> compensation.I love this guy. We have been friends for 20 years. MLM
> can affect relationships. I will probably leave just for the sake of
> keeping our friendship.

Yes, you were overanalyzing because you were asking questions he did not
want to answer and could not answer without bursting his bubble.

> I read one of the other replys to your post. They do make money off
> of training. They cleverly disguise it. They say if you don't sign up
> for the International, then thay can't work with you. I recently went
> to a regional and paid $20. Not bad right? Multiply that by about
> 650- 700 people in the room. The room probably at tops cost 1,500 for
> the day. Oh yeah there was no milk or cookie, or lunch. I sat there
> from 10 AM till 3 PM.

Aha! Someone else out there is doing the math. Exactly! Then they'll
say how expensive the room is for the space. Call the hotel or
wherever they rented the room and pretend like you want to host a
gathering that'll go on one evening and have the same sized crowd and
they'll give you a price. No, remember, that room is a commodity that
expires quickly. If they don't rent to someone that night, it's lost
income they can't get back. If you're willing to rent weekly on one
night each week, they'll cut you a good deal. The room I checked on
was for a group that could be as much as 500 or more. It was something
like $600 for the night and they easily raked in $1,200 or more with
each meeting. If they had a weekly deal, they were probably getting
$300 for a weekly fee for that space.

> Here is a good non scientific way to tell if someone is doing that
> good. Look at their shoes. If they are dull and all scuffed up and
> their suits are straight off the rack, then they probably are not
> doing that well. Millionaires look good even in sweats and jeans. Ya
> feel me?

Not true at all. I know a millionaire who wears t-shirts and blue jeans
most of the time. He's usually wearing sandals or something that's
more like a cross between a shoe and a slipper and is often wearing
ones that are just about worn out.

He's just one example I'm thinking of. You can't draw stereotypes about
millionaires. A while back I was considering buying a new Mercedes
convertible, before I decided I loved the antique one I had and the new
one was just for ego. Actually, I was looking at a lot of convertibles
and sports cars. The only sales staff that treated me with respect was
the one at Mercedes. In short, if you've seen the "Cosby Show" episode
about buying a car, he makes some good points. He intentionally
dressed down for the experience. That's what I always do. It gives me
time to browse the lot without being disturbed by a fast
talking "Harold Hill" type salesman. Interesting that the only high
end dealer I stopped in to see was the only dealer that treated me
well.

Perhaps they figure people who can afford an expensive car can also
afford to live by their own rules.

Hal

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Re: [MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

On Sunday 30 March 2008, rocketsrants wrote:
> That was an excellent cautionary explanation to a prospect.
>
> I would like to be able to use that on my blog a little later on, if
> I may, as an excellent example of realities vs. hype & myth in MLM.

Forgot to respond here, with the rest. Who's response are you talking
about?

Hal

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Re: [MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

On Sunday 30 March 2008, rocketsrants wrote:
> That was an excellent cautionary explanation to a prospect.
>
> I would like to be able to use that on my blog a little later on, if
> I may, as an excellent example of realities vs. hype & myth in MLM.
>
> Anybody truly wanting to run a profitable business SHOULD be
> constantly tweaking, adjusting, and looking at things with a critical
> eye.
>
> There is no road to success that you simply follow, and anyone that
> tells you otherwise is either lying or stupid.
>
> It really is that simple.

That's an excellent point! Never let down your critical thinking
skills.

Hal

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[MLM Survivors Club] Re: looking for some direction

I thought I was saavy. I picked apart PPL. Then my best friend
approached me about another MLM. I'll give you a hint:
telecommunications, Trump, Kiyosaki.

I've recently spent some time pouring over chat rooms, blogs and both
praises and complaints about this company. There were overwhelmingly
more complaints than praises. I asked my friend pointedly how much
his upline makes in a month if no one in his downline recruits and
his answer to me was that I was over analyzing the company and it's
compensation.I love this guy. We have been friends for 20 years. MLM
can affect relationships. I will probably leave just for the sake of
keeping our friendship.

I read one of the other replys to your post. They do make money off
of training. They cleverly disguise it. They say if you don't sign up
for the International, then thay can't work with you. I recently went
to a regional and paid $20. Not bad right? Multiply that by about 650-
700 people in the room. The room probably at tops cost 1,500 for the
day. Oh yeah there was no milk or cookie, or lunch. I sat there from
10 AM till 3 PM.

Here is a good non scientific way to tell if someone is doing that
good. Look at their shoes. If they are dull and all scuffed up and
their suits are straight off the rack, then they probably are not
doing that well. Millionaires look good even in sweats and jeans. Ya
feel me?

Do your homework. Good luck.

--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@yahoogroups.com, "eligabeth2"
<eligabeth2@...> wrote:
>
> hey,i am new to the survivors group and to the MLM industry and my
> question is , Is the MLM industry as a whole, corrupt or is it just
a
> few companies that are? i just recently enrolled in to a company
and so
> far i have not experienced any of the things that alot of the
people
> have experienced in this group,i'd like to think i am not gullible
but
> i guess desperate times cause for desperate measures. If i could
get
> some advice on how to brace myself for things to come it would be
> greatly appreciated.
> How i became involved in this industry was through a book someone
had
> given me 'The business school' by robert kiyosaki,i had read
another
> book of his earlier in my life 'Rich dad Poor dad' and this person
who
> gave me the book (obviously a network marketer) advised me to read
it.I
> only read this book because it ws written by Robert Kiyosaki, but
it
> certainly got my attention.
> I dont want to be a statistic in this industry so if there are any
tips
> to prevent me from any future headaches ,id rather find out now and
> stick to my Job.
>

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