On Tuesday 18 March 2008, rubyshamrock4 wrote:
> Roxy...I in no way intended to offend you by misquoting or mistaking
> what you were saying concerning your sister. I think it is a perfect
> way for your sister to involve you in something she is passionate
> about without putting on the pressure to buy. If you like it...you
> will get more I guess.
You've missed the point. When someone is recovering from surgery, the
focus is on them. It's not a time to give a gift that is about
recruiting. It's a time to give a gift that says, "I care about you."
Period. End of statement. "I care about you." Not, "I care about you
BUT if you like it, you can join me." Roxy had already told her she
didn't want to be a distributor previously. It's a loaded gift and
it's clear at that point it's not about, "I hope you get better," it's
about, "Here's a gift from my stuff and I want you to know about it."
If you don't see the difference, then you're missing something big and
important in terms of human needs and behavior.
> Every1...
> I am just trying to absorb what is being said and not trying to
> become completely close minded about MLM's in general, because I
> don't think you can lump them all together, especially in light of a
> company like Avon becoming multi level. They have been around
> forever, and I remember my mom going door to door selling it before
> there was such a think as the internet and there weren't Avon ladies
> on every corner back then.
There are people here who have been burned by Avon. Name the MLM.
There are people that have been burned.
> I can understand the purpose of the group is to protect those who
> feel victimized or affected by MLM's, but should we become as
> obstinant about all MLM's being bad as proponents of them claim they
> are all good?
Would you go into an AA meeting, which is a group of alcohol survivors,
and say, "Why are you so down on alcohol? Beer's just fine." Think
about it. This is NOT a place to advocate MLMs.
> I am here to objectively gather info in general because
> I have had so many different family members involved in different
> things...
> but basically it seems like the business model is a viable
> one in theory
Communism is nice, in theory. Some say that in theory a bumble bee
can't fly. The key words are "in theory." I have a program in my text
editor right now that is doing everything perfectly so, "in theory" it
should communicate with the radio I have hooked up to my computer, but
it doesn't.
The reason we use the words "in theory" is because there is a difference
between theory and reality. Reality includes millions of factors that
humans can't account for in theory and one of the most complex factors
is humans themselves. MLMs look good on paper, but they also have a
structure that is perfect for abuse. One person can build their own
cult out of their downline and, in most cases, that's exactly what
happens.
> and I just don't see much wrong with self promotion.
Self promotion isn't the issue, self promotion at a time when one should
be thinking of others is an issue. There is a time and place for
everything. (Just look up the lyrics to "Turn, Turn, Turn" or find it
in the Bible for a refresher.)
> If your sister owned a steak house (and it was a franchise even) she
> would probably tell you to come on down and eat there...no one would
> argue that you should support her.
This is a logical fallacy, or a flaw in your reasoning. You're
substituting "steak house" for Arbonne and you seem to think that draws
a fair parallel. It does not. For example, you could
replace "Arbonne" or "steak house" with brothel and it becomes a
different situation -- and before you say, "But those are illegal," all
we have to do to deal with that is say it's in Nevada. A steak house
is a completely different situation from Arbonne. Records and reports
of abusive and brainwashing tactics are rife for Arbonne.
> Granted I don't know a thing
> about her MLM, because I have no personal experience with
> them...
So, since you're considering all this objectively, why don't you listen
to people who have dealt with MLMs, including Arbonne, personally? You
said you were here to gather information and Roxy just gave you a ton
of information about what's going on with Arbonne, yet rather than
absorb it, you want to tell her it's wrong.
> maybe they are not financially viable for their prospects.
> Is there room in this group for someone to be truly openminded and
> open to the possibility that not all MLM's are created equal?
I love that. "Truly open minded." Just gotta love it. In other words,
since we disagree with your view point we're not open minded.
Many of us were open minded and that's how we learned that MLMs don't
work. You've got well over a hundred years of personal experience with
QS (one of the biggest MLMs) alone. We were open minded until we
learned what ripoffs they are.
Open minded does not mean ignoring the facts. You are essentially
claiming you're open minded and we aren't. Since you're open minded,
then you won't mind checking on the sites we use to post the down side
of MLMs, would you? Since you're open minded, it won't bother you that
over 99% of people that join an MLM lose money instead of making it,
will it?
See, open minded does not mean staying open to something when the
numbers, facts, and experience show it's bad. If MLM were worth being
open minded, then more than .5% of the people who go in to them would
be able to make a living at it. Open minded does not mean ignoring
facts once they've been established.
One last point: Roxy pointed out a lot of issues with her sister in her
post. She pointed out how her sister's behavior and personality
changed, how her sister could now only talk about one subject and how
her whole life is consumed with one subject. She gave us many points
that showed that there were serious problems with what Arbonne was
doing to her sister.
Why didn't you address any of those? Why pick one point only and ignore
the many that show that there is something seriously wrong with the
situation?
If you respond, I expect an answer to that question. Avoiding it will
only let us know that you're not as open minded as you claim because
you're going to deal only with the points you want to deal with and
ignore anything that disproves what you want to believe.
Hal
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