On Sunday 26 August 2007, momluvseliana wrote:
> So I have been snooping around forums (scam.com), to research World
> Ventures. I find the approach/debating skills of pro MLM'rs to be
> really weak. I notice that us anti MLM'rs state facts, and give
> concrete evidence, and ask questions, and voice concerns, and never
> attack the person in the MLM, (except for those anti MLM
> knuckleheads with no tact, that like to start shit and call people
> stupid for being in an MLM).
It's important to understand that even though they aren't in a compound
rallying around their leader and are still living daily lives, they are
in a cult. Their brains have been programmed. They have been
brainwashed. I am not using these terms lightly. They have been given
recordings to listen to over and over until they think that way. Did
you ever read "Brave New World" and, if so, do you remember how they
were taught by listening to tapes while they were sleeping? Whenever
they got mad they'd say, "A gram is better than a damn," and take soma
(or whatever the feel-good drug was most of them were on). Without
even thinking, they repeat the phrases and follow the action.
I saw this happen with me back when I was married (okay, so that was in
prehistoric times it was so long ago). We were in New Mexico, riding
horses in a group up in the mountains and someone coming out of what
was supposed to be an abandon mine spooked my horse who took off. He
was so polite that I knew when we reached the fence up ahead, he was
going to stop quickly and let me go over first, so I let myself fall
off. Then I get up, dusted myself off, made sure my camera was okay,
and looked up at everyone looking at me like I was an idiot. I thought
to myself, "What do I do now? How do I show them this didn't phase me
and I'm not just an idiot city slicker from back East? What the heck
do I do? What do you do after you fall off a horse?" Then it hit me,
once I said that phrase, so I just calmly got back on it. I didn't
even think. The phrase hit me, I repeated it and acted by what it
said.
The phrase hit me because I had heard it thousands of times in my whole
life. For MLMers, they've heard their phrases thousands of times in
just the few years they've been in their MLMs. They have been taught
to not think. They have been programmed to respond to certain
questions with certain statements. They CANNOT think this through any
more. That's why we say to use questions. The idea is to focus on the
questions their upline hasn't programmed them for or can't defend
against. If an MLM drone gets enough questions that aren't directly
answered, the hope is they'll start asking more questions and see
Truth.
> And all the pro MLM'rs like to say is
> that WE are NEGATIVE PEOPLE, or lazy asses with jobs, or not
> ambitious. I haven't seen one pro MLMr answer the questions being
> asked. Is this normal?
It is normal. Calling us negative is the same tactic Rush Limbaugh is
using when he labels people liberal. Now, before anyone bursts a blood
vessel, I'm talking about Rush, not the GOP or any politicians. I'm
using one man as an example and he is rather an extremist, but if you
listen to him, he has been known to make up facts and if challenged,
will not debate, but will shout people down. If someone says something
he doesn't want to worry about, he calls them liberal. He says it like
it's a dirty word, forgetting that our system is designed to work with
two opposing parties. He uses that word like it means idiot and once
he's labelled someone that, then that supposedly means whatever they
say after that is not valid and can be ignored. It's basically a name
calling fallacy (someone help me with the name, since I've been up all
night!) where he calls someone a name and implies that because of that,
all their arguments are invalid. It's the same with MLMers. By
labelling us as negative, they think that means they don't have to
answer our questions or listen to our facts. It's the same as sticking
their fingers in their ears and singing loudly whenever we start
talking. It's how they legitimize ignoring us.
In many cases they are so programmed that they can't even hear or
understand what we say if it doesn't fit with their programming. The
brainwashing is that strong. It's an incredible thing to watch and it
is almost impossible to believe a thinking person can be like that.
> It seems like no matter what MLM they are
> in, you get the same response, attacking the person, and not
> answering the questions.
Ad hominem. That's the one I wanted. It's an Ad Hominem fallacy.
They're attacking the person instead of the argument. The truth is
that anyone can make a correct statement, whether they're negative or
not. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
> Maybe I am being biased, but it is obvious
> that when there is a debate between MLM'rs and anti, the anti does
> not need to attack the person and state flaws in their opponents
> character, but the pro mlmr does.
Anti has facts and proof. Pro does not. MLMers didn't join for facts
and logic. It was an emotional decision. They wanted the reassurance
and the acceptance. They went in because it was warmer and fuzzier
than the Truth they didn't want to face.
At least many, not all. Many, and Paine Webber is an example, go in to
make some extra bucks and are drawn in along the way (I'm assuming you
won't mind that example, Paine, since you've used it yourself before!).
> It is really lame.
Yes, it is.
> It is so
> obvious even in writing, how dumbfounded they are by the question
> (and the answer they "discovered"
> tangents and say things like "you are an idiot, you don't know what
> you are talking about, have you been in the business?" etc, etc.
> You guys know the deal right?
A response to that might be, "But even an idiot can speak the truth.
Can you focus on my question and not on me? Or does what I say make
you too uneasy?" Keep bringing them back to the fact or statement.
You won't win, but it might get under their skin.
That's one reason I'm only on this mailing list. I was engaged to
someone who needed serious therapy, but it wasn't easy to see until we
had been together for a while and, just as with an MLM, you get drawn
in and sometimes it takes a shock for you to suddenly see what a mess
you're in. When I saw that, I tried everything to get her to listen to
why I was in pain and what I needed. If I dared to say anything that
implied she wasn't perfect and better than I and the ideal mate, she
would either throw a tantrum, stop talking, or change the subject. She
was not capable of hearing certain facts and points of view.
Then I dated my ex-gf that was in Quackstar and saw it again. I didn't
give her as much time before I realized it was best to let it drop.
What I've learned from these two women and a real bastard alcoholic I
used to work for is that when you're up against someone like this, you
CANNOT win any discussion. Whenever you get close to scoring a single
point, they'll scream and fight and act like a 5 year old, grab the
ball, claim it's theirs, and storm off home to Mommy.
I can't discuss Shakespeare with someone who thinks "Friends" or "My
Mother the Car" were examples of good writing and doesn't know what
iambic pentameter is. By the same token, I can't discuss logic or
business plans or financial strategies with an MLMer because they've
been brainwashed so they have no understanding of the terms and are
busy talking about Mom the car getting a lube job while I'm trying to
point out how that one punctuation symbol in MacBeth can change the
meaning of the whole play by redefining Lady MacBeth. One needs
brains, the other is for those with an absent mind that need the drool
wiped off their chins and shirts.
(And for those wondering, the issue is whether Lady MacBeth says, "We
fail!" or "We fail?" when MacBeth asks what will happen if her plan to
kill the King fails.)
> Just wanted to tell you guys what I noticed (and have been irritated
> about), you all probably know this already. Haha. I mean, I am not
> a very good speaker, or debater, but I know that I will not win an
> argument by name calling or character assasination. "Well you are
> just a negative person, I don't have time to debate this with you."
> I don't know whether to feel sorry for them, or laugh.
That you see it is great. The hard part will be emotionally accepting
that MLM drones really have lost their ability to reason and are
that "stuck" in a miasma of ignorance and inability.
Hal
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