On Friday 31 August 2007, Loving Father wrote:
> Hal Vaughan, THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!!!
>
> I have lots of questions but let me start with........
>
>
> HV wrote:
> "The people at the top don't make money on product sales, but on the
> business tools."
>
>
> Who makes all the money off the products?
A few people do. The higher ups do, but one point that has come out
about TEAM is that they don't do many product sales. I was also not as
careful as I could be with my phrasing. By saying they didn't make
money on product but on tools, I intended to mean that their income is
mainly from tools, not from product. I knew what I was trying to say,
so I didn't catch that when I proofed it.
Some pins (not in the TEAM group) have admitted that they make 75% or
more of their income from tools. Considering that one issue that has
come up is that TEAM doesn't sell much product, it's safe to assume
(which I don't do often) that TEAM makes even less on product. Think
about what that means. They are telling people, "You can succeed, like
we have, just follow the program and keep buying the tools." Then when
you succeed, you're making money by selling tools, so the tool business
is a pyramid, especially since, outside of the group, nobody wants the
tools.
Another note before I forget: My ex-gf was paying $7.50 on CDs
that "nobody made a profit on," but if you're dealing with mass
production, those CDs and the case would be about $.50. Think about
that. If they can get them for $.50 each and are selling them for 15
times that, then there are, as I see it, only these possible
conclusions: 1) They don't get them for cheap and pay $5 or more for
them (which is absurd because even buying CD-Rs, paper, cases, and
making the CDs and labels yourself, they're under $1 a piece), or 2)
They are getting them for cheap but have so many costs associated with
them that they're not making money, or 3) They're lying.
Their distribution costs are basically non-existent since they're often,
as I saw, distributed by hand from one IBO to their next level down, at
functions. The higher ups supply the CDs but don't pay for gas to take
it to their downline, the downline pays to come to the upline. Either
#1 is true, in which case these people that are supposedly so wise are
idiots because they don't know how to control costs, or #2 is true, in
which case the same is true, or #3 is true, in which case, there's a
scam going on. If you can think of another possibility, I'd love to
hear it.
>
>
> HV wrote:
> "There's also the functions they expect people to attend."
>
>
> I'm chaperoning my wife to one this October. I think it's in
> Kentucky. I'll fill you in on the experience. lol [;)] (as a note:
> I support my Wife, but I do have boundaries. "Lovingly" let her
> know I would not be attending all/most the functions.)
Beware of their techniques. They have been doing this for decades and
their goal is to convince people that this is the only way they'll ever
succeed is to work their system and to do that, they have to do just as
they're told, which includes buying and listening to the tools.
You're in business, here's a question: What place do bands, cheering
functions, and such, have in a business meeting? Yes, if there are
conventions, they usually do business meetings and such, but THEN they
have the celebrations and fun later. While they try to make it sound
like they're making business fun, that's not what's going on.
This sounds like I'm overstating things, but at these conventions, they
will be using brainwashing tactics. Yes, brainwashing. Cult experts
recognize Quackstar as a cult (sorry, I am so sickened by what I've
seen and learned and by how many people I've seen ripped off, I just
can't go with their real name).
At conventions, they get people cheering and get them excited. Then
they go for a sensory overload. They play music extremely loud, use
light shows, and so on. The idea is to overload one's senses. When a
person's senses are overloaded with too much to process, the brain
stops analyzing what we perceive. They use bands with loud music as a
good reason to have loud noises and flashing lights. Then, when people
are excited and their brains are no longer able to process all the
stimuli that has come in, the "logic" center in our minds is shorted
out and deactivated. At that point, people are ready to accept
whatever they hear without thinking. When the leaders say, "This is
the best opportunity in the world!" the IBDrones are no longer at a
point where they can argue. They accept it and believe it without
arguing and it's stuck in their brains. Then when they start
saying, "Buy the CDs and books and tools," they're ready to follow
anything they're told.
Another point you might watch for: Each convention is the biggest, the
best, and the most important to go to. If you don't go to THIS
convention, whether it means you miss your kid's birthday or an
anniversary, or anything else, then your business will surely suffer
and you won't recover. Remember that and when they start talking like
that, ask your wife info about her business. How big is her downline?
What's her monthly PV? Probe all this, then WRITE IT DOWN. Then a
month or so after each "important" convention, do the same, compare it
again, write it down.
After a few of these, you'll have a track record. Don't tell her you're
tracking it. That would be "negative," which is their general purpose
insult word and excuse for not listening to anything that contradicts
the upline. However, you can start asking her, "Didn't they say that
about the last convention? How much did your business grow after
that?"
This brings up an important point. I don't know if I said it in my last
response, but even if I did, it bears repeating. If I tell you
something, it can be a lie. If you discover it on your own, you know
it's true.
What you tell your wife can easily be called "negative" and written off,
but if you use questions to get her to think it over, she might
realize, on her own, what is happening.
Also, before she is too into it, search online for "Merchants of
Deception" and read it. If you think she's open to it, have her read
it. It could stop this dead cold. Be careful, though. It could make
her think you're against her. They make a big deal about never talking
to people in other groups, or "cross lining" as they call it. If a
news story comes out about one group they'll say, "Thats not us.
That's another group. We operate differently.
that even about people in their own group to deflect questions.
Another source, by the way, is the NBC Dateline story on this. I don't
have the link right off, so searching will help. I think I found the
transcript and read that.
> HV wrote:
> "Make sure she keeps track of the money she spends."
>
>
>
> THANKS for the reminder. I'm going to take a closer look at the
> TRUE cost/purchases she has made. I was helping her create and keep
> track of her expenses. No need to keep track of revenue when it's
> ZERO. lol [:))]
She may not want to track expenses, so just let her give you numbers and
write them down. Again, anything that might cause a person to doubt
the upline is called negative and they use that term continuously to
keep people from examining anything that could indicate their program
is not making them rich immediately.
> Hal you got me thinking…… I really don't know how much she has
> spent. [:-/]
And I can promise you she doesn't either. They do not want her to know.
They want her to keep spending.
Here's another point: You were talking about how a husband and wife
should support each other. Where are the limits to that? Should a
spouse support someone if they're planning a confidence game like
in "The Sting?" Should a spouse be supportive of throwing large bills
down a wishing well over and over? Where are the limits?
Do more searching. There are many MLM websites out there (and I have to
get going, so I don't have time right now for links, but others here
can provide them). Research this group and see what is going on. Then
remember there is a difference between supporting your wife and
supporting her playing a part in a con game where not only is she
conned, but she's taught so she can be used to con others as well. How
will she feel if she realizes, at some point, that she was duped and
that she duped others as well?
You can't just go up to her and tell her everything, unless you think
she's really ready to hear it. She won't want to believe you. You
have a successful business now and she wants one. She may feel like
you're jealous that she might succeed and do better than you. Even if
she doesn't feel that way, her upline will convince her that's the
case.
You're up against a multi-million dollar business that makes all their
money from people like your wife buying their CDs and going to their
conventions. They have every reason to convince your wife they're
wonderful and you're a lying scumbag. They make a big deal about a low
divorce rate among IBDrones, but the truth is this group has destroyed
many families. There are people here who have lost spouses and
children in divorces and seen other horror stories. I can tell you
tons of facts, but only you know your wife, so tread carefully.
It may help to figure out a way to help her start a legit business.
Then she doesn't have to listen to her upline, she can set her own
hours, and determine all her policies instead of doing what the upline
says to do. That way you also have a retort for, "How else am I going
to be successful?" Of course you can point out she is already
successful and ask her whether she wants to make it on her own or
depend on the upline and downline (all of whom could quit at any time)
to do well.
Remember, though, handle it carefully. If you take this away from her,
you're not taking away a scam. From her point of view, you're stealing
her dreams and chance to succeed. That's why it is important to use
questions that make her think.
> Hal, thanks for helping think his through. [:D]
That's why we're here!
Hal
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