> PW - Who is this message for?
DukeBoyz01. I've gotten a response, and we're resolving the situation.
Thanks.
PW
PW - Who is this message for?
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
<paine_wwweb_
>
> Do you have a real email address you could provide in your
profile?
> The one that is there prevents me from making you an unmoderated
> member of the group. That is sure to delay your messages from the
board.
>
> It also prevents me from sending this message to you privately.
>
> If you want to have unmoderated access to the group, you'll need to
> enter a valid email address. I cannot do this for you.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> PW
> Owner/Moderator
> MLM Survivors Club
>
> Unless Amway and Quixtar and the
> rest of the deceptive cult has
> changed drastically in the last
> year, writing a letter to them
> will do nothing, but writing a
> letter to the Attorney General's
> office will get their attention
> fast.
James, I think you're confusing the corp with the motivational
organizations.
The corporation DOES honor requests for refunds of application fees.
Motivational organizations will do everything they can to keep you
from quitting or getting your money back. The corporation tries to
keep itself separate from the A/QMOs, even as they do nothing about
the abuses.
I have written letters to lawyers and to attorneys general. It does
not get the attention of anyone until legal action is taken against
them. It's good to have those letters on file in their offices, but
only the ones that are the easiest to respond to will get results from
the corporation.
In other words, if you want your $150 registration fee back, you'll
probably get it. If you want the other tens of thousands of dollars
you spent "building your business," you can pretty much forget it.
Incidentally, there is NEVER talk of "loser" or "shut up" from the
corporation. Never. Period. That is your upline in the motivational
organization talking. While I would never think of the corporation
and the motivational organizations as entirely separate, you have to
keep the nature of their relationship clear.
PW
Dear Deb,
Unless Amway and Quixtar and the rest of the deceptive cult has changed
drastically in the last year, writing a letter to them will do nothing, but
writing a letter to the Attorney General's office will get their attention
fast. Upon my giving notice of leaving Quixtar/Amway I was immediately and
completely cut off from any and all communication with any of the members.
The person who sigend me up and the ones who trained me were all told they
could no longer communicate with me be cause my "negative" quitter attitude
would cause them all fail, too. I find it very strange how one little
"quitter" like me could ruin so many people, but their brainwashing teaches
that it WILL happen. I went as high as Dick Wilson, the regional leader of
the area and received 10 minute phone yelling lecture where I was told to
"shut up" numerous times and was called "stupid", "loser", "quitter", "a
pathetic example of a Christian" and my wife's illness was ridiculed, mocked
and was even blamed on me. I contacted Amway/Quixtar headquarters and was
assured I would receive a refund, but after a month received nothing. I
had already written the Attorney General's office and turned them in for the
cons they were, and about a week later my letter got results. I was called
by Quixtar and told how it was all a misunderstanding and offered a refund.
The refund came in parts and I still had to make an additional call to get
them to quit billing me for their brainwashing CD's, but after a year I
finally got my full refund back, short of one cent. Since then I have made
that one cent the most expensive penny they ever kept. I have and will
continue to tell everyone about what Quixtar and Amway are like and have
successful stopped at least a few people from going through the misery I
did. You can not play nice with these people. Never threaten them with
anything legal or not legal. Never tell the enemy your plan of attack.
Just take action as fast and as hard as you can against them and when they
contact you, demand only your refund and back and talk no more to them.
They wish only to get you to back down or trap you into a comment admitting
some or all of the fault is yoiurs. All in all Amway/Quixtar is a very evil
organization bening run by a few hand-selected evil people who have trapped
hundreds of thousands of unspecting good people and brainwashed them into
thinking their only way out of a failed lifestyle is Amway. Hit 'em fast
and hard, grab your money back and get away from them as fast as possible.
I know all this from first hand experience. James
----- Original Message -----
From: "gimpymommi" <NotHip456@gmail.
To: <mlmsurvivorsclub@
Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:52 PM
Subject: [MLM Survivors Club] Re: need advice
> If you write a letter to the Amway Corporation, telling them you have
> chosen NOT to be an IBO, they will refund their share of your
> application fee. They're really good about that.
>
> Their main headquarters is:
> Amway Corporation
> 7575 East Fulton
> Ada, Michigan USA 40301
>
> But I'm sure if you look over your information, you can find a "local"
> address for the Corporation. Just make sure it says "Amway"
>
> You possibly paid more than Amway's fee to some sort of Motivational
> Group - the group your sponsor is in. They *might* refund your money
> - but will probably pressure you to stay in. Just tell them you've
> sent your letter of resignation to the Amway Corporation; and they
> will go away.
>
> Deb
>
>
>
> --- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
>>
>> I am from Romania,was to a amway meeting...and got in... i want to know
>> if i dont go anymore to their meeting and dont buy a thing,what will it
>> happen?how do i get out?
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Hi everyone,
I have recently left TEAM and it's been refreshing to
read all the posts and see that some of the feelings you have and
get are not as isolated as you feel. I had been with TEAM a little
over two years. Suprising..I never made a profit even though I
worked the business hard. I don't feel I'm a dupe or sucker, I
actually work in Law Enforcement but we were introduced to TEAM
through a good personal friend(who never did a thing in the
business) and my personality is a Choleric Sanguine..(Read Florence
Littauer's book, it can actually help a lot if your trying to reason
with someone regarding choices they have made, not to use them to
get into a MLM) Basically I'm very goal-driven and also a people
person and I"m extremly stubborn(I blame my Dad) and don't like to
give up.
All I really wanted was for my wife to be able to stay home with
our kids, if I made a ton of money, I wasn't going to give it
back!! I didn't put myself in an extremly deep hole as far as debt,
I worked a lot of OT shifts and special assignments to make money to
help cover costs and DOT1 STEP!! I regret the most is the time I
gave up with my family to work the business. There were several
times in the business where I really started to think things through
and wonder if it's worth the cost and it all came to a head when
Orrin and Chris and several of the other leaders left or were
terminated(who knows?)
I read everything I could on the lawsuits and was suprised that
TEAM was claiming Quixtar was an illegal pyramid. I asked one of my
upline Platinums about this and got a very vague answer and was told
to just keeping showing the plan. I never showed another plan.. I
felt it was wrong to put people into a business that the leaders
were saying was a pyramid. I kept on system(quit listening to it)
for a little while longer and then received a call from upline that
he was resigning and that I could do what I wanted(mu business). I
also resigned from Quixtar. There was one more open meeting after
that and it was pretty pathetic, the speaker had no clue what he
could say and couldn't say. Afterwards, I made some,"negative"
comments and asked that if Quixtar was a pyramid for self-consuming
wasn't TEAM the same thing if we're selling leadership/motivati
materials to TEAM members.
I received a call from my upline saying he heard I was having a
rough time with the adjustments(
hot but I had a ticket to the major function in Louisville,KY. and
hotel rooms already paid for. The night before the function
started, there was an emergency in the town I work for and i had to
come home. It was a pretty well publicized incident( I really don't
wanna say what it was cause it could give away my identity if
certain people cruise this group, I've even used a different e-mail
than my regular one) The only calls I got were from a well-known
Sapphire and Round table member inquiring as to where the two extra
tickets I was going to sell them were, no one asked how my family
and community were doing. I called one of my upline platinums(a
good friend at the time) and told him what had happened and that I
had to go home. I haven't heard from him since(6 weeks)
I took myself off system and told some of my downline I'm
finished. I'm not going to bash TEAM but I figure after two years,
I should have had better results, once you've burned through your
warm market and do not have anything substantial building, it is
EXTREMELY hard to build a profitable business. I have a great
opprutunity to start a new business in the transport business(no
MLM) and am excited. Heck I even listen to the radio again and
*gasp*watch some TV and play video games with my boys. Sorry about
the long post, tried to scale it down as short as possible.
Do you have a real email address you could provide in your profile?
The one that is there prevents me from making you an unmoderated
member of the group. That is sure to delay your messages from the board.
It also prevents me from sending this message to you privately.
If you want to have unmoderated access to the group, you'll need to
enter a valid email address. I cannot do this for you.
Thanks.
PW
Owner/Moderator
MLM Survivors Club
If you write a letter to the Amway Corporation, telling them you have
chosen NOT to be an IBO, they will refund their share of your
application fee. They're really good about that.
Their main headquarters is:
Amway Corporation
7575 East Fulton
Ada, Michigan USA 40301
But I'm sure if you look over your information, you can find a "local"
address for the Corporation. Just make sure it says "Amway"
You possibly paid more than Amway's fee to some sort of Motivational
Group - the group your sponsor is in. They *might* refund your money
- but will probably pressure you to stay in. Just tell them you've
sent your letter of resignation to the Amway Corporation; and they
will go away.
Deb
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
>
> I am from Romania,was to a amway meeting...and got in... i want to know
> if i dont go anymore to their meeting and dont buy a thing,what will it
> happen?how do i get out?
>
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
<steve.indepass@
>
> Yeowwwch. Sorry.
>
> Ok. MLM preys on people.
>
Hey, sorry if I got a little defensive. I was more hurt than mad.
Apology accepted, from someone with tons and tons of self-esteem. ;)
On 27 Nov 2007 at 10:36, steve.indepass wrote:
> Hi Lauren, I don't think we disagree - I'm saying the people at the top
> who establish the business in the first place KNOW the dynamics that make
> MLM make money for them
Gotcha Steve. I misunderstood what you were saying.
I do think though that low self esteem is not a prerequisite or even a
common trait necessary for falling for a MLM.
Vicki, what you are saying about MLMs zapping your self esteem makes a
lot of sense. You end up doing so many things that are beyond what you'd
normally do - and you just don't feel good about it inside. All the while your
upline is trying to stick their fingers in your ears and give you a chant to
block out your inner feelings and instincts.
Even with that though, I don't think the issues brought on by MLMs are
necessarily long lasting, at least for those who can work through their
problems.
I can understand all of what Dukeboyz was saying and certainly don't think
it adds up to low self esteem. Of all places, this group is where ex MLMers
can voice their inner thoughts and feelings they had while under the MLM
influence.
Hopefully those who haven't experienced MLMs first hand will respect that
and speak to the positive traits needed to break free from the crackpot
industry. :)
Lauren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
FWIW - I don't think any of those quotes shows any trace of lack of
self-esteem PRIOR to MLM. To me it illustrates what MLM does to try
and brainwash people!
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
wrote:
>
> --- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
> <steve.indepass@
> And PW, the connection between low self-esteem and MLM? Here are
> some examples:
>
> "I hated the feeling that everyone was a prospect and if I wasn't
> sharing the Arbonne story with someone everyday, and for sure
> everyone that I came into contact with, then I wasn't a good
> person."
>
> "I slowly began to feel like if I wasn't rah-rah-rah about
Arbonne,
> pounding the pavement to sign up new people, launching new
business
> builders, etc, then I wasn't much of a person."
>
> "No more opening my calendar and feeling guilty and ashamed and
> worthless"
>
> Those are from DukeBoyz01's original post - and that's the most
> recent of thousands on this forum.
>
> Now tell me you don't recognise lack of self-esteem in those
quotes?
> If you do, are we saying that MLM takes happy, self-assured people
> and turns them into people who feel worthless and ashamed? Or
does
> it prey on people who struggle with that in the first place? I
> think it's an important question to ask - even if it's not a
> comfortable one.
>
>
> Hey-now wait a second here. Don't try to put a label on me based
on
> reading my first post-especially when I clarified it later. Who
are
> you to say that I had low self-esteem to begin with, and then it
was
> magnified after my involvement in a MLM? I said twice that that
> wasn't the case. But, oops, guess you know me and my situation
> better than I do. My words were not put on here so you could
> isolate them and make a point that me and thousands of others were
> just swimming in a sea of self-doubt until our savior MLM came
along
> to rescue us. From now on, I will speak for myself, I really
don't
> need your interpretation of my personality.
>
Yeowwwch. Sorry.
Ok. MLM preys on people.
Yuck! I too am part of a mom's group that's Christian-based. We
meet twice a month at a local community church. Even when I was a
part of Arbonne, I never, ever talked about it at meetings, or tried
to recruit any of my friends from the group with my "opportunity"
I just didn't think it was appropriate to do so, even though my
upline strongly encouraged it. In my four years being a part of
this group, I've seen at least eight women join with, I believe, the
sole intent on recruiting and meeting new prospects. They come to
one or two meetings, bring catalogues, ask people to have parties
for them, etc., and then if they don't get their desired outcome of
a bunch of new recruits, they stop coming. I think it's
despicable.
This year, our theme for our group is "The Home Factor" and each
week, one of the leaders gives a short presentation about their
homes and what's important to them and their families. Last
meeting, one of the leaders who sells Premeire Jewelery gave her
presentation. It was 80% a sales pitch for her opportunity.
Emphasizing the faith-based principles of the company and
the "legacy of servitude" or something corny like that. I wish I
would have gotten up and left.
Stay-at-home mom's are a big target for MLMs. Giving up an income
to be home almost certainly puts a family in a difficult financial
situation. And MLMs play to the emotions of women who want to still
be at-home parents, while adding much-needed income to their
families. I know that's how it played out for me, anyway. Just
wish I would have found this site two years ago!!!
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
<no_reply@..
>
> I am in a mom's group in my area from meetup.com. It is a great
> group of women who are stay at home moms, work at home moms, part-
> time work moms or just moms. The organizers of the group were
nice
> enough to start "MOMtrepeneurs" a section of their meetup site
that
> posts the mom's businesses. I am so glad I know about MLM's. It
> seems a lot of them are in MLM's such as Mary K, Pampered Chef,
> Arbonne, Bittersweet Candle, Premier Designs, etc. I posted my
> personal training business. The ladies seem to love going to
> the "parties." Again, I am glad I know better. If one of the
> ladies approaches me, I will simple say, sorry but I am not
> interested. I wish I could save these ladies, but who am I? I
> looked at the Premier Designs link and boy do they look extra
> slimy.
> They sell like jewelry or something. And right off the bat, the
> homepage says...
> "We are so glad you have taken a moment to explore Premier
Designs.
> Feel free to find out more about our company and discover what
makes
> it so unique. As you will see, people are our greatest asset, and
> enriching every life we touch is our main purpose. For 22 years,
we
> have taken pride in the fact that we are a Biblically based
company
> which strives to put more emphasis on people than on sales. Be
sure
> to listen to this personal message from our founder Andy Horner.
> Please contact us if there is any way we may serve you." (vomit)
> Biblically based and selling very gaudy jewelry? Big red flag for
> me. OMG I hate MLM's. There is only one word to describe them in
> my book, evil.
>
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
<steve.indepass@
And PW, the connection between low self-esteem and MLM? Here are
some examples:
"I hated the feeling that everyone was a prospect and if I wasn't
sharing the Arbonne story with someone everyday, and for sure
everyone that I came into contact with, then I wasn't a good
person."
"I slowly began to feel like if I wasn't rah-rah-rah about Arbonne,
pounding the pavement to sign up new people, launching new business
builders, etc, then I wasn't much of a person."
"No more opening my calendar and feeling guilty and ashamed and
worthless"
Those are from DukeBoyz01's original post - and that's the most
recent of thousands on this forum.
Now tell me you don't recognise lack of self-esteem in those quotes?
If you do, are we saying that MLM takes happy, self-assured people
and turns them into people who feel worthless and ashamed? Or does
it prey on people who struggle with that in the first place? I
think it's an important question to ask - even if it's not a
comfortable one.
Hey-now wait a second here. Don't try to put a label on me based on
reading my first post-especially when I clarified it later. Who are
you to say that I had low self-esteem to begin with, and then it was
magnified after my involvement in a MLM? I said twice that that
wasn't the case. But, oops, guess you know me and my situation
better than I do. My words were not put on here so you could
isolate them and make a point that me and thousands of others were
just swimming in a sea of self-doubt until our savior MLM came along
to rescue us. From now on, I will speak for myself, I really don't
need your interpretation of my personality.
