On Monday 28 May 2007, cstargio wrote:
> I was merely asking for reviews on the product Hal. Not a defense
> statement for Amazon. I simply said they "...broke my trust and
> confidence".
> scrutinize anything I buy from their site as they obviously don't.
> Do you see anywhere in my post where I even tried to discourage
> people from using Amazon because they're the culprit here? No!!!!
I didn't see you saying not to use Amazon. I was addressing your point
about breaking your trust. They're a large corporation, which means
there are ways they can act as well as things they cannot do. As for
scrutinizing anything you buy from their site, that was always your
responsibility. Remember, Caveat Emptor! (Let the buyer beware.)
What gave you the idea that I thought you were trying to discourage
people from buying from Amazon?
> And Yes, I did say in my post I expect positive reviews. Do you
> have a problem with that? I thought this whole group was about
> looking about positive and negative aspects of MLMs. Isn't that why
> some proMLMers are allowed here?
I don't have a problem with that.
Have you been reading posts recently? For the last week and a half, I
have been the only one standing against someone who has been using the
same kind of reasoning that is often used in MLMs. I've been doing it
alone. The closest I've had to any support were two posts about NPD,
otherwise, I've been the only person willing to take that stand. I've
been doing it alone, without thanks and without help. *I* know this is
a place, mostly for survivors, but also for discussing different
aspects. If you've been keeping up, you would know that and you would
NOT need to lecture me about what it's about.
> Isn't it healthy to see both sides
> and, as a logically thinking adult, use what fits your own personal
> values?
Apparently not, since your blood started to boil when I did nothing more
than point out the other side of the Amazon situation. Is it okay "to
see both sides and, as a logically thinking adult" about some things
and not about others? Is it healthy to do that with MLMs and not with
large web based companies?
> As an open-minded individual, I take both positive and negative
> product reviews and use "what makes sense" given the product and the
> promise.
Good. So you got a different point of view on Amazon. I'm sorry it
made your blood boil, but, honestly, that is no reason for such a
strong "attack" on me. If you read over what I wrote and the strength
of language you have used here and your point about seeing both sides,
then it does bring up the question of why it was necessary to come down
so hard on me.
> Guess I'm not going to be able to read posts from this group as I
> try to enjoy my own morning mug. Makes my blood boil when somebody
> takes something and turns it in to another cause.
It's not another cause, it's just balancing the facts and remembering
that there is no trust bond between us and large companies.
> How did a request
> for Bio Lean II reviews become a review on Amazon? Can't see
> anywhere in my post where I asked "why" Amazon does what they do.
> Yes, Hal, I understand that a business with projected revenues close
> to 14 billion this year that does business solely on-line doesn't
> have time to go over every listing. Did I say anywhere that they
> did, should or could? No. I understood all that from the beginning.
Okay, all at once, since there are several different comments I could
address directly.
You talked about your trust of Amazon and I pointed out a specific point
of view and why they would have "broke [your] trust and confidence."
Then, in response I get a rather strong reply and notice about how you
can't read this group with your "morning mug."
It's clear Bio Lean II is quite an emotional issue for you. You've
talked about logic in this post, but this post is anything but logical.
You basically jump down my throat because I point out a different point
of view, which is emotional and not logical.
Okay, so it's my turn. I've spent several years on this board. First
it helped me because I had a tough time dealing with a girlfriend who
was in Quackstar. Since then I have literally spent years here helping
people, debating MLM people and trying to do what I could to stand
against one of the few things in this world that I actually consider
evil.
I have been attacked by people, called names, and trashed in a number of
ways. I have stood up for others, I have fought to give what seemed to
be balanced MLM people a chance to be heard and when they have stepped
over the line, I have stood up to have them removed.
Recently it has seemed that if I stand up against someone, that I do so
alone, without support, and even without anyone sticking up for me if
I'm attacked personally. I have gone out of the way to avoid making
personal attacks or making emotional or non-logical statements.
And now, for the first time, I'm going to break that rule.
I've recapped what happened between us. I was not jumping on you, I was
not attacking you. I was being quite calm and merely pointing out that
a large company cannot be responsible for all the products sold by
their dealers, as well as remind you that there will likely be a
movement by the products supporters.
For that, I get hit with a strong emotional attack.
That was not fair and underhanded. I cannot be responsible for your
emotional state and I'm sick and tired of having to try to monitor what
I say because it might offend someone like you. I spoke out of logic,
you responded that we should be able to do that, but then you also jump
down my throat. You're an adult. If you can't behave like one, you
should not be posting. You're responsible for your feelings and for
your anger. So sit and think just one damn minute. What did I say
that deserved such a strong reply? What did I say that was not based
on logically looking at both sides of an issue?
I've been on here for years, showing as much patience as I can with
everyone here and focusing on every detail of MLM reasoning and pro-MLM
posts. I've shown the difference between emotional reasoning and
logical reasoning and it's quite clear that your post was emotional
reasoning. I do not deserve that. I did not deserve your attack for
trying to point out a logical view that was the other side of your
point.
I'm tired of standing against people and being the only one to do so.
I'm tired of being called names. I'm tired of emotional attacks
against me.
You talk about logic and being adult, yet you fly off the handle when
someone uses logic in response to your comment. You know what?
Personally, I don't care if you can't read this over your morning
coffee. Your overreaction to this and anger is your problem, not mine.
You made the choice to respond emotionally, not logically, and I'm not
going to take care of that. It's up to you.
To all the others, I apologize for such an emotional post, but after
several years here, I feel like I at least have the right to not be
attacked for pointing out the truth to someone other than a pro-MLM
person. I've spent the past week and a half standing up against
Dawn/Terra and that leading to her running out of any clear arguments
and using personal attacks on my reasoning (such as using it against me
that I figured out in a week to get out of Quackstar while it took her
16 years or that I don't have children so, supposedly, her arguments
are more valid than mine). I'm fed up. Everyone has their limits and
this is mine. For once, I just had to vent.
And to cstargio:
You owe me an apology.
I've never asked for one or said one was due. I'm not going to argue,
I'm not going to mollycoddle you. I'm just going to say, for the last
time, if you can say:
> Isn't it healthy to see both sides
> and, as a logically thinking adult, use what fits your own personal
> values?
then you understand logic and you should understand the difference
between logical and emotional reasoning. Your attack on me was
emotional. That shows you've got issues on that topic, which is fine,
but taking them out on me is not fine. Deal with it because I'm not
going to.
Hal
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