Mick's got it! That's what happened with me. I got to a point with
the alcoholic where I had to tell him... "I am not trying to give
you an ultimatum, but I have decided that I cannot have drugs and
alcohol in my life. If you choose to have them in your life, you
are going to have to do it without me. I cannot tell you what to
do, but I can choose what I am going to do. I don't want to raise
my kids in this environment and I want kids someday."
He chose the drugs and alcohol... and ended up with a woman who also
chose drugs and alcohol. I am sure they are very happy together and
I feel for their children... if they have any.
BUT, my life is free of drugs and alcohol and I am raising my son in
a drug and alcohol free environment.
I think it was Hal that discussed the impact of the relationship on
your daughter. He is absolutely right. Unfortunately, as a child I
saw my mom in an abusive relationship. I also saw her grab me and
leave everything else behind when he beat on her in front of me. We
never went back. It took me a little while to see it when I was in
it, but i finally saw it and did just like my mom had done all those
years earlier. I grabbed what I needed and left the rest behind.
Keep working up your self esteem. Realize that you and your child
deserve much better. If you can't do it for yourself - do it for
her. He is the creator of his own mess. Let him find his own way
out of it. You can not help him because he does not want to be
helped.
--- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
<mickwenlock@
>
> Vicki
>
> You have said what needs to be said so very eloquently.
>
> Eva - FWIW - do not make this "he has to choose, it's Primerica or
it's me".
>
> You decide - pick YOU, Drop Primerica - forever. Your boyfriend
has made his decision time and again and you have lost out every
time.
>
> We all deserve better than this. No-one should put up with the
crap that you have put up with. Vicki has said it so very well.
>
> Mick
>
> Vicki <v_eller@...
it before "First, I didn't leave him. I planned it and when
> I finally told him my plan he begged me to stay." He has already
> HAD his warnings. How many times are you going to pound your
head
> against that brick wall and realize that it will give you a
headache
> every time? You can't make someone change for you. They won't.
> You've already tried. And you have bailed him out of his messes
> every time because you "don't want him to be wrecked". So, since
> you continue to pick him up, he will continue to do what he has
> always done.
>
> I will try to briefly give you another one of my stories. Again,
> it's not directly MLM, but it IS a story of a bad relationship
and
> knowing when to get out. I almost didn't get out. My first
fiance
> was a control freak. But it didn't come out until I was engaged
to
> him and in love with him. I had to do what he said, think what
he
> thought, or pay the consequences. He shot my self esteem down to
> the point where I was afraid to do anything else. Then he turned
> violent. The first time he nearly broke my arm, he apologized,
> promised he'd seek help and it would never happen again. A few
good
> weeks went by, then it happened again. I was trying to leave.
He
> begged me to stay. If only I would stay, he'd change, because he
> loved me and couldn't live without me. A few good weeks went by,
> then he kicked me in the stomach. He apologized, promised that
it
> was REALLY the last time. He would change.... it happened over
and
> over for 5 years. He kept telling me it was MY fault. He told
me I
> was lucky to have him. No one else would ever want me. I
> was "damaged goods". So finally one night, he came home and was
mad
> that I didn't leap out of my chair to greet him. I was playing a
> game on the computer. So he ripped the computer out of the wall,
> threw it acroos the room. Grabbed me by the neck and dragged me
> across the room. I needed help. For some reason, I couldn't get
> out alone. I called my mom in the middle of the night to come
and
> help me leave. He ripped the phone out of the wall... Luckily,
my
> mom came. I left with a bruised neck, and NEVER went back. He
> begged and begged me not to throw away 5 years. I reminded him
that
> HE threw it away, not me. He promised this time to get help, but
> only if I come back. I told him he better get help for HIMSELF,
so
> that it doesn't happen in his next relationship. I held
strong...
> finally. And I learned that I was not the unwanted person he
told
> me I was. I could make friends. I was smart. And that good
> relationships are a true partnership with respect, trust,
> communication, compromise and being responsible for each other as
> well as ourselves. And you know what... I am now married to a man
> who ALWAYS talks to me before making a major purchase, or putting
in
> for a job change. He never talks down to me, never hits me,
never
> calls me names.
>
> You may not be in a violent situation, but the similarities are
> there. His form of abuse is with your finances. He is
completely
> disregarding your well-being and that of your child. He is
driven
> by his selfish impulses. And the misguided sense that he is
better
> than what he really is. He is NOT going to magically flip a
switch
> and turn into the person you WANT him to be. You should KNOW
that
> by now. He is holding your future hostage.
>
> Believe me when I tell you that no matter how afraid you are of
> change, (Because it's the change that you are REALLY afraid
of...
> not the actual loss of this deadbeat), when you finally get to
the
> other side of this... and he is out of your life (as much as
> possible considering you share a child) you will be much
happier,
> your bills will be paid and you won't be living with your mother.
>
> And if you don't believe me, again, go seek couseling. They will
> most likely tell you the same thing. You are trying too hard to
> hold on to something that is broken beyond repair. You probably
> know that deep down inside, but are too afraid of the unknown to
> follow through. I know for me, I knew it long before I would
admit
> it to myself. I was just too afraid of starting over again. And
I
> was too afraid to admit that "I" failed in a relationship.
>
> I've been there twice. Once with a physical abuser and once with
a
> drug/alcohol abuser. I know the inner struggle between wanting
the
> other person to wake up and see the light, and walking away. I've
> lost many nights of sleep trying to figure out WHEN to cut my
> losses. I spent many nights crying over the fact that they could
> see what they were doing to me and the relationship. I ran
> scenarios in my head of what I could do to make them realize the
> error of their ways. None of them would work.
>
> I can't promise you that it will be easy, but I can promise you
that
> once you make it through to the other side... and you will make
it
> through... it will be better. And I suspect that since you got
> together so young that you really have no idea how a healthy
adult
> relationship should be. I can promise you that the relationship
you
> are in is not a healthy one. This has been going on far too long.
>
> Good luck. Be strong. And stop letting him manipulate you!
>
> --- In mlmsurvivorsclub@
> <trekkiebear@
> >
> > I've decided that I need a better plan than just, you have so
long
> to
> > make X amount of dollars by January or he has to quit.
> >
> > It's amazing how just telling your story and getting support in
> return
> > can be such a relief. It's also put a measure of starch of in my
> > spine. I just don't feel like the same person who typed it all
> out. I
> > feel like I can do this, I can even leave him if I have to, I
just
> > need a better plan to see this through.
> >
> > Hal and one other person in my life have told me that I need to
> give
> > Arnold some kind of warning. A couple of others seem to feel
that a
> > sudden jerk may be what he needs. But lately I've come to feel
it
> > could leave him feeling abandoned, depressed and hopeless.
> >
> > I don't want him to be wrecked. I just want him to see sense
and
> for
> > us to get our lives back on track. Not the old track, but a new
> track
> > where we can live together and pay our bills.
> >
> > So I need a plan. I'm kind of making this up as I go along so
any
> > suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > I figure I need a way to tell him all this where we can't be
> > interrupted and where he can't run away so easily or get
> distracted by
> > home things.
> >
> > I'm thinking a hotel. That I take him to a hotel for a weekend
and
> I
> > just finally lay it all on the line and tell him what I think
and
> how
> > I feel and what the consequences are if he can't get himself
out.
> >
> > If I ask him to meet me there due to our schedules, we'll have
both
> > cars so neither one of us will be stranded if the other gets mad
> > enough to leave. I'm thinking two nights at an AmeriSuites or
> > something. Someplace where we'll have two separate spaces to
sleep
> or
> > just take a break if things get heated.
> >
> > I wonder if they have a room far away from the other guests?
> >
> > OK, so once I get him there, what do I say? Do I lay everything
on
> the
> > line with an ultimatum? Do I give him a certain amount of time
to
> > "detox"? Should I have some books on brainwashing on hand? He
loves
> > reading all those self help kinds of books that set my teeth on
> edge -
> > Think and Grow Rich, Rich Dad Poor Dad, How to Win Friends and
> Drive
> > Your Wife Nuts By joining an MLM. I wonder if he'll try reading
a
> new
> > type of book.
> >
> > Maybe I should just give him my posts from here.
> >
> > But once it's all out in the open, how do we go home with it all
> > hanging over our heads? If we can't reach a common resolution
how
> do
> > we live together, knowing that it will end?
> >
> > Should I even give him a warning? Should I just plan it all
myself
> and
> > have a place for him to go should the inevitable happen? Find a
> place
> > for him, give him the keys, tell him he's on his own and walk
> away. Or
> > do I let him do that himself? If I wait for him to do it, we
might
> end
> > up right back where we started.
> >
> > I know I'm planning just a way to tell him what I think but why
> does
> > it feel like I'm planning the end of our relationship
altogether?
> >
> > I guess because part of me feels that he may just choose
Primerica
> > over me and then it will be over. That's a sad and scary
thought
> and I
> > guess I have to prepare myself for the possibility but damn.
> >
> > Just damn.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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