I apologize for this long post and if you would like to take this off the
board and forward this just to Hal, I will understand. I do not know how to
email him directly….
WOW! Hal, I can't even begin to tell you how profound this post was for
me…you put things in such a way that was raw, but almost spiritual. I have
yet to hear anyone explain the dynamics of this mind set better by anyone..I
even had to read it to my husband…he found it as wonderful as I did. You
see, though I do not have the Quixtar/MLM history of brainwashing… I was
brain washed by another organization that I am sure you have heard
of…Jehovah's Witnesses (was raised from birth as one, left at the age of 33
years old, I am now 45). It was through my coming out of that cult that I
became aware of so many things. I had been out of the Jehovah's Witness
Organization for a couple of years when I meet my friend and we became close
instantly. As we grew closer I realized that they were in Amway and that
they would eventually try and recruit us. So, I let it be known that I
didn't want to do any kind of MLM. I had already been approached by Amway
people and I wasn't impressed. So, though they tried a little, they pretty
much left us alone about Amway and we became best friends. She went with me
through all my trials and tribulations about coming out of a cult. She saw
all the effects, the tactics, etc. She lived these emotional crisis' I was
going through with me.
Then, the year 1999 came…Quixtar was kicking off. They really wanted us to
join then, and so I agreed reluctantly to attend a Quixtar function.
Immediately, I realized something was "a miss". As I set through this
special function for the kick off of Q, I started to want to puke. I
started hearing phrases which I had heard all of my life. Like, "you must
be here at every function to get the proper food at the proper time in order
to build your business successfully"
called them, "you must attend every meeting, every assembly, so that you
will get the proper food at the proper time to be given to you by the
Faithful and Discrete Slave, so that you may gain your salvation." That
was the straw that made me physically go vomit in the bathroom at that
function. It seemed as though a black cloud had found me and surrounded me
throughout the entire time I was there.
When I left that night, riding back home with them in a two hour car ride, I
could not get over the similarities…
function for a meeting after the meeting….wow…it was uncanny. We did that
too as Jw's. So when I got home I immediately started searching the
internet about Amway…I knew it was Amway and they were just changing the
name to Quixtar…I wasn't stupid. But, I figured that was a good business
move on Amway's part since their reputation was so bad. As I did my
research I came across all these testimonies that seemed so similar to mine,
just not religious in nature. But I was still confused as to what this
really was…I didn't understand what they meant by "business", "plan"
"compensation" buying from yourself", it didn't compute to me as a
BUSINESS…it wasn't like any business I had ever run and I had started two
successful businesses by the age of 30. So, reluctantly, at the continued
urging I agreed to go to a Major function in Penn. …. they were sure that
this would give me an idea of just how wonderful this business was…and this
one would explain exactly what the "business" is….after all…it had saved
their marriage, made them so much better people, as I was told. They
absolutely sounded like these functions electrified them. I was still lost
in a mist of double talk.
As I attended I became anxious and panicky during this large convention, and
I had flash backs of my past that sent me into my shell. She realized that
something was wrong with me and therefore gave me permission, so to speak,
not to have to come to anymore of the convention. I spent most of the time
in the hotel room after that. I was repulsed, I couldn't believe these
people all looking alike, sounding alike, and saying the same thing over and
over again. It was just like being a Jehovah's Witness's all over again.
I was informed shortly after the convention that they had consulted their
upline, and since I had been involved with a cult that had conventions, that
they were best to allow me not to "have to be in the business"….what she was
saying was that I could still be their friends, even though we were not in
the business because we had a good reason. When she said this I knew I was
in too deep. I was attached to her, and she to me. And even though we
would NEVER be "in the business", our friendship was so strong that she
still kept me as a friend. She couldn't let me go….she had become too close
to me. So, we stayed friends and continued to grow as close as we could. I
soon realized that it was hard getting to the core of who "she" really
was…there was this artificial air about her that I couldn't break through.
When you said in your post "artificial bonding" it so stuck home with me…she
was so happy with our friendship, but I increasing found it difficult to be
satisfied with what she gave me in our friendship. It seemed superficial,
yet she would say it was deep and bonding for her. I wanted that with her
and at times I found it, but it was hidden deep and still is hidden deep
within her. Occasionally, I get her to become real and get her to explore
true deep feelings, but those times are few and far between. She likes this
façade that everything is always perfect in her life, even when it is
crashing down around her. I can't stand it when they go to a function
because they come back so pump and so fakey that I can't stand to be around
them.
When I came home from that Penn. Function I went back on the internet. I
took me months, even with my background, even with all my study of mind
control that I had done to help myself come successfully out of a cult…it
still took me months and even years to understand how the dynamics of how
this "business cult" works. And as you can see, I still have trouble.
I have been reading this list for several years and take part very little as
I don't have the experiences that all of you have in relation to MLM, but I
read to keep up on things, because I hope that one day they will want out
and I will be there to help them understand. I have spent most of my life,
since leaving the Jehovah's Witness 's helping other Jw's and exJw's figure
out what is happening to them. I have helped many come out and make a
successful transition. Kind of what you do here for MLM…I just do that for
ex-Jehovah's Witnesses, and those Jehovah's Witnesses that are wanting help
to come out.
Your post spoke to my heart as I could relate in so many ways about exactly
what you are trying to say, yet, I can't quite understand this flavor of
mind control because I haven't been "in it". And no one can quite
understand "my flavor" of mind control because they have not been a part of
it themselves. You can see things so clearly when you are out, but not when
you are "in". All of these years later, been out 12 years, I still find it
hard to believe that I believed what I believed.
Us ex-Jehovah's Witness call it being in the "borg"….because we commonly
referred to being "in the organization"
doing exactly what the "organization" tells us to do. Hence, the bOrg…Star
Trek…like YOU say - IBDrones. So funny, just so funny
I see the blurring of lines of religion and this business, and this played a
large role in my friends desire to be a part of this business. They
consider themselves big Christians, and that is how we originally met…in
church. I am finding it hard to continue to be around her as I see myself
and how I was for so many years and it repulses me. It takes me back to
traumatic times that are hard to get over, and so I distance myself from her
and she gets hurt because she doesn't understand…and I can't tell her. Oh,
I have been through the "trying to explain" what I know about "the business"
but it has just caused conflict and at one time almost did end our
friendship. I didn't have the skills to help her like I have for Jehovah's
Witnesses.
This however, is what makes me mad….when you speak to others about cults
whether it be Jehovah's Witnesses or the Monies, they believe you. When I
try and explain that Quixtar has ruined my friend's lives because of the
brainwashing…
are more difficult to explain to people.
I can see that my friend's husband, has opened 4 different businesses other
than Quixtar and have NOT been successful at any of them simply because he
doesn't think that he should be….he has been programmed that the only
success in life is Quixtar…this effectively sabotages his other career
opportunities and his businesses that he has tried. I see that his marriage
may be intact, but artificial and surface, not wanting each other to see any
negative about themselves. She hides things from him, like drinking wine
with me because this just isn't proper for Quixtar people. I see that they
have no retirement because they have been believing that they would
eventually be rich. I see that they are in debt and barely paying the
bills, while looking to everyone as if they are doing great, and planning
trips to Hawaii. She can't complain to her husband that he isn't cutting
the mustard because that would be negative towards him….but if she would
just let him know that he needs to get serious about a JOB, instead of
failing at every business he enters maybe he would be successful now and
retirement would be in their future.
All of this for a "Quixtar business" they NEVER have in over 15 years made a
profit.
I loved you personal analogies in your post…it was very revealing and hit a
core with me. I had just came back from the new "The Brave One" that just
came out. It was a great movie and I related to so many issues with the
Character of Jody Foster. It shows how easily we can lose who we are
because of what happens to us, what we are exposed to, and the traumatic
experiences we endure. My life has been very traumatic as I lost every
person I ever knew from birth and my entire family too because of leaving
the Jehovah's Witnesses. I could feel her pain on a different level, but
still it was the same. The music sound track was outstanding and I am going
to order it today. You sound like a person after my own heart as I have
many of the same interests that you speak of in your post. You can read my
testimony at http://www.freemind
a picture of me if interested. You should know that the testimony is
incomplete, as my views, feelings, ideas about my spirituality have changed
since that was written. I am much more liberal in my views and though I
have changed I realize that those around me in my church could never
understand my views….so I believe what I want and keep my view to myself
because my spirituality does not remain in the hands of any other person,
belief, doctrine or church. I have found that religion is just another form
of some kind of cult, even though through the years many religions have
migrated to a tolerance that makes them less of a "mind control"
organization. Some are just less destructive than others. I love to study
other kinds of spirituality, it makes me aware of more of myself than
anything else I can do. Many say that if Jesus wasn't God then he was
insane and the greatest liar on the earth….I say, if he wasn't God then he
must have been one of the most spiritually enlightened person of his time
and maybe that have ever walked the earth. He had a spirituality that is so
individual that every one misses the point of his words because they use the
other writings in the bible to qualify his words and use those
qualifications to stifle one's individual spirituality.
of like mind.
I have rambled on long enough….I just felt moved to write this to you…not
sure why…just a connection with your words, I guess.
Thanks for your post, I am going to file it and keep it and read it again
when I get so frustrated with my friend….maybe it will help me to be a
kinder and more gentle person, and certainly more understanding when I feel
so alienated from my friendship with her.
Thanks again….and hey, I love to talk religion, movies, philosophy, and
poetry…feel free to write.
Margie
On Friday 14 September 2007, Margie James wrote:
> Ok, Hal.a very good description of the underworking of Team.I
> understand the numbers, money at functions etc..however, what I don't
> understand is how they can justify THIS particular function.
The answer is deeper than a "THIS function" issue.
And sorry for such a long post, but I'm explaining it in the best way I
know how because it is incredibly hard for a sane person to grasp just
how an IBDrone's thinking is bent and twisted and shaped and
controlled. I'm even using some personal examples so it helps to
connect with a real person and how many of us think.
Just recently someone quoted Dale Carnegie. I forgot who, but the point
of the quotation is that we are NOT logical beings. We are Humans, not
Vulcans. We love, we dream, and, most importantly for this situation,
we desire. We have dreams and we want them to come true. It may seem
off topic but I had a teacher in college that, in film class, said that
he felt writer/director of "The Blue Angel" knew more about desire and
sexuality than Hugh Hefner or all the other girly magazine publishers
combined (this was before the Internet and the Internet porn we've been
talking about). If you haven't seen it, it's about a distinguished
professor at a boys school who finds his students are skipping out at
night to see a singer (Marlene Dietrich) at a local nightclub. He goes
to see her to ask her to discourage the boys, but he is so drawn to her
that, in the long run, he gives up everything in his life to marry her
and ends up dying in shame as part of an absurd act on stage. There is
no sense in it, but he is so driven by desire, all he can see is
Dietrich's hot legs (which she shows a lot in that movie) and his
overwhelming lust to possess her.
Okay, maybe off topic, but what the AMOs do, whether it's TEAM or any
other one, is to fan the flames of lust. They excite the IBDrones the
way Dietrich excited the professor. They go out of their way to make
people lust over more and more. Just recently I've learned a few very
scary things about myself, but I'll share them because they're
important. I'm more of the "Bohemian" type. I like poetry,
Shakespeare, study esoteric forms of spirituality, love discussing film
and books (even Harry Potter, anyone want to talk about that off
list?). Generally I'm NOT materialistic. All my life I've done
whatever I could to "stick it to the man," but, as I've discussed with
some off list, as I run my business, I'm becoming "the man." Now I
find I have resources and even some influence. I never wanted that
before and I even eschewed it.
I would make excuses and say I was too high minded to care about
material wealth and about driving a Mercedes or being able to buy
stocks and so on. Then, as things improved for me, I admitted I wanted
a Mercedes (specifically either a 450SL, 380SL, or a 560SL, all are the
same style). While I always said I loved that particular style of
convertible, I avoided it, saying that fancy cars were for people that
needed to boost their own ego. Then, when that and other things came
within my reach, I realized they were not so bad. I made my "high
morals and ethics" into an excuse to hate what I did not have.
(Personal digression, if I may: some will notice that the only time I
mention my car is as a retort or response to the idiots and drones who
come in to brag about how they'll be rich and their MLM is the only way
to make it. I use it here to prove a point: On my own, I did it and
paid cash, so you're wrong. I made it without their crap and without
spending money to make money. I just never tell them that the dream
car Mercedes convertible I paid cash for and drive daily is 22 years
old! I considered getting a newer one, but realized there is no other
car I'd rather drive.)
I've found a lot of us do that. We talk poorly of those with opulent
mansions and talk trash about them, but there is a part of us,
somewhere inside, that wishes that instead of wanting to stick it to
THAT man, we want to be THAT man. Whether we admit it to ourselves,
that's what we want.
The AMOs are brilliant at knowing that and knowing that we all see
ourselves as important and brilliant, but also as unrecognized, so they
tell us we are brilliant and that we deserve a lot more. They tell us
we deserve that mansion and that we can have us. They force IBDrones
to dream big. One day they will have millions and will have that home
and can dress for a function, go into the garage, and pick the Rolls or
Lambo or whatever that matches our cloths to drive to that function.
I forgot who it was, but one member here wrote about how he wanted a
fishing boat. Nothing elaborate, just something he could take out to
go fishing. He told us how his sponsor took him to the marina and told
him, "Your dream isn't big enough," and told him he should dream about
a huge boat with bunks and everything.
A lot of people dream about the smaller boat because they think that's
all they can ever afford. They won't admit they'd like a bigger boat
(why does that make me think of the line, "We're going to need a bigger
boat!"), but down inside they do want it. Instead they admit to scaled
down dreams.
AMOs tap that. They say, "Yes, you do want it and you should want it."
They give IBDrones permission to admit, "Yes, *I* want that big boat.
I want a mansion. I do want all this and I can make it happen." That
last sentence is also important. They say, "You can make it happen."
Then they brainwash them even more and say, "But you can't make it
happen without us. We're your only way to be wealthy. No other way
will work."
Once they get that pattern set up, it's like training a dog. Once the
dog knows that he gets a bone if he does what you say, he always does
it. Remember, the king pins make a LOT of money off the functions.
They also use them to continue their brainwashing by keeping people
sleep deprived, bombarding them with bright lights and loud sounds, and
telling them everything they want them to believe.
Now with a direct answer: After all this is set up, you have IBDrones
that believe what their upline says. So for the first few conventions
they say, "This shows you the business and what it's like. It's
important you see what you're telling people about. You need to see
how we work." That gets people in and starts the brainwashing. From
there, it's easy to convince them, at each function, that THIS one is
the big one. It's the one you need to make it! This is the one that
will build your business more than anything.
After a few functions and the party atmosphere, the fun, the artificial
bonding, and so on, people are trained to look forward to these events
and see them as important to making any progress.
How do they justify it? Not with logic at all, but with emotions, but
with promises and lies and creating false hope. They don't have to
justify it to anyone because everyone believes whatever their upslime
wants them to believe.
> They
> are always told that this one is the ONE NOT TO MISS and this one
> will be the one THAT WILL MAKE IT WORK, and if they don't go they
> will fail...they say this EVERY time.
Yes, and they keep falling for it and they forget that's what was said
before. It's like a magician keeping people's attention away from
their hands.
> But, NOW they have NO business
> if they are a part of team, they have to quit Quixtar, correct? if
> they stay a part of Team? Don't they?
But the Team will watch out for them. It reminds me of a phrase on the
show Babylon 5, changed slightly, "The Team is Mother. The Team is
Father. Trust the Team." That's how the members are treated. The
Team cares for them. The Team loves them. The Team is their way to
success and salvation. Trust the Team. They won't hurt us, they love
us.
Forget that, for years, they've said the products for Quackstar are
great and now they are saying they aren't. Now they can say that is
why so few succeeded. They can say, "See, this is proof we care about
you. We want you to succeed. We want that so much, we're leaving
Quackstar and finding you a much better opportunity. Just stay with us
and we'll take care of everything for you."
Yes, it makes me want to puke as I'm sure it does everyone else here
with a measurable IQ.
> Now, I know that Team is in it to sell Motivation, but motivation for
> a business. What could a function at this point be for..motivate
> what..what will they actually say at this convention. Will they act
> like nothing has happened? And how can we find out what they say at
> a convention.I would like to know what is discussed.
They don't care. They can, for now, say, "We're motivating you to keep
going while we keep going. It's important now, more than ever, to keep
your attitude up while we're changing because we're going to set up
something even better and more wonderful than anything before, so you
HAVE to keep the faith and keep up the habits that will make you
successful."
No offense, but you are making one critical mistake: you are still
expecting things to work on a logical level and for IBDrones to think
clearly. That doesn't happen. I didn't just start calling the IBOs
IBDrones for fun. It's an important point. They are drones, like bees
that follow the queen, ants who can't think, or even (another TV/movie
reference -- I'm a screenwriter, it's how I think), the Borg in Star
Trek. Do NOT expect the IBDrones to think or reason or follow logic.
They cannot and will not.
> One more thing. I would like someone to try and predict something
> for me.
>
>
>
> My friends have been in Amway/Quixtar for at least 15 years, maybe as
> many as 20 years. Always "plugged in" as far as going to every big
> or Quarterly function. Buys all the tapes, website etc. Does not
> however go to the weekly meetings, monthly, and are not actively
> "showing the stupid plan".over the years I have known them 12 years,
> they have gone "IN AND OUT OF" the "I got to build it hard now" and
> robotically trying to show the plan, to not building at all, but
> continuing to be loyal to these Functions and BSM's, and buying
> products.
>
>
>
> Now, during these 15 years they have ALWAYS bought all these core
> products.vitamin, XS, toilet paper, paper towels, soap, energy bars
> and more.I mean their house is full of these products.my friend only
> uses Artistry for her make-up..15 years of the same products!
>
> Now this has to be a total shock to their system to
> stop buying these products. To them these are the best of the best.
>
>
>
> Can someone predict, how their minds will justify NOT buying these
> products anymore. How will they change their thinking to adapt to
> this new Team "whatever it turns out to be"? Can someone that has
> been in that mindset tell me?
You're asking for something only a psychic could do or a psychologist
who's been working with those particular people for many years. And,
as any psychic can tell you, there's this pesky thing called free will
that can get in the way of any prediction.
Overall, though, it sounds like they are rather weak willed and could
easily be convinced to like whatever products the Team is hawking.
Hal
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